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FBI goes with the low bidder with Glock

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    FBI goes with the low bidder with Glock

    While the Sig 320 is what they want, they have to go with the low bidder.

    BACK TO THE FUTURE? FBI Adopts What Sounds Like A 1990s-Era 9mm Glock

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation wanted new pistols to replace their Glock 22 (full-sized) and Glock 23 (compact) .40 S&W pistols. In specific they wanted the Sig Sauer P320 system, which was obvious to anyone who read their RFP.

    F.B.I. Request For Proposals Requirements

    First, the RFP requires manufacturers to provide a Compact, Full Size, Inert (Red Handle) Training, and Man Marker Training Pistols (Blue – Simunition), along with parts and armorer tools as needed. The firearm must be chambered in 9mm. For the most part, most major firearm manufacturers could provide all the necessary firearms and trainers.
    • BARREL LENGTH – Full size must be 4.26″ to 5.20″; Compact size must be 3.75″ to 4.25″
    • HEIGHT – Full size no more than 6.0″; Compact between 4.75″ to 5.6″
    • MAGAZINE CAPACITY – Full size at least 16 rounds; Compact at least 14 rounds
    • MAGAZINE DISCONNECT SAFETY – None allowed
    • COCKING – Only by trigger pull
    • TRIGGER – Firing pin/Striker fired only
    • TRIGGER PULL – 4.5 lbs. to 6 lbs.
    • MAGAZINE RELEASE – Laterally pushed, no levers
    • MANUAL EXTERNAL SAFETY – None allowed
    • DECOCKING LEVER – None allowed
    • GRIP SAFETY – None allowed
    • FRAME/RECEIVER – No finger grooves allowed, must have (3) sizes – small, medium, large; can be accomplished through inserts or different frame sizes.
    • PICATINNY RAIL – Required for pistol mounted lights.
    As is customary with RFPs written to down-select to the product that the end user wanted in the first place, this FBI RFP was written in such a way as to exclude virtually every gun that they did not want by both listing specific qualities that the desired gun has, while excluding other guns by listing qualities that they have the desired gun doesn’t.

    You’ll note that in the FRAME/RECEIVER specification, finger grooves are specifically disallowed.



    Guess what Generation 3 and 4 Glocks all have? Yup. Finger grooves on the frame.

    So how the heck did this happen?



    Even though the RFP excluded Glocks by features and all but screamed, “We want the Sig Sauer P320!” Glock somehow walked away with the FBI contract. How is that possible?

    Quite obviously, they created a new variant of the 9mm pistols with the frame grooves removed… or perhaps simply dusted off and modified the Generation 2 frames (you can go down the generations rabbit-hole here if you really must) with Gen. 4 backstraps.



    We don’t know any more than that at this time because the contract award didn’t provide any details about the winning handgun design, and Glock hasn’t made any public statements at this time.
    The Federal Bureau of Investigation wanted new pistols to replace their Glock 22 (full-sized) and Glock 23 (compact) .40 S&W pistols. In specific they wanted the Sig Sauer P320 system, which was obvious to anyone who read their RFP. F.B.I. Request For Proposals Requirements First, the RFP requires manufacturers to provide a Compact, Full Size, …

    #2
    Get ready for 9mm ammo to be like .22lr after this. Of course they will need a few hundred million rounds ASAP!
    NRA Benefactor Life
    NRA Instructor & RSO
    NYSRPA, SAF, GOA

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      #3
      When I took the Glock Armorer's Course last summer, the instructor hinted that Glock would be coming out with a new grooveless frame.
      Steve

      Comment


        #4
        They had to add finger grooves to make more points for import when they added the rail. The finger grooves are considered a "Target Grip" by the ATF. It was used to offset the rail.

        They can make them without finger grooves at the Georgia plant that will excluded the pistol from import restrictions.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by MSA77 View Post
          Get ready for 9mm ammo to be like .22lr after this. Of course they will need a few hundred million rounds ASAP!
          Good, more .40 for me.

          Comment


            #6
            How many changes is this now? It seems each time the wind blows in a different direction they're going with a new pistol. Worse than a monkey with an Etch a sketch being in charge of uniforms at Natick.
            Exercise the Bill of Rights. It's good for your Constitution.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by bberetta1 View Post

              Good, more .40 for me.
              Me too, but I use 9mm too. Time to start reloading again!
              NRA Benefactor Life
              NRA Instructor & RSO
              NYSRPA, SAF, GOA

              Comment


                #8
                As long as it was contracting administrators and career executives who decided this, I'm good with the call. Things always get so complicated when you include the end user (Agents, field personnel) is allowed input in a process like this. Besides, it's only money, taxpayer money, so it's not as if that's a problem.
                Things like function, comfort, caliber and preference should never be considerations.
                Good job GSA/FBI

                Comment


                  #9
                  I have zero doubt that the FBI decision to go from .40 to 9mm was purely money-based, but I think the Glock 9's and the Sig 320 9's are around the same price - so I'm not too sure why that choice.
                  Somehow I think that the guys at their firearms unit in Quantico don't know either.
                  “The Wise are silent, the Foolish speak, and children are thus led astray.”
                  Algernon Blackwood

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My theory...

                    Fibbies wanted Glock from the start. Period. They have Glocks. They like Glocks. Thave hundreds and hundreds of trained and cert'd armorers already. They have tens of millions of draws, trigger pulls and rounds down range and the collective muscle memory that comes with it. They have rooms full of Glock parts, Glock tools, holsters, mag pouches and Glock coffee mugs they'd have to abandon at a total loss to start anew with the 320.

                    They wrote the RFP to force a Gen 5 Glock with the quirks they hated gone. No more finger grooves; had a flat faced trigger and doesn't spit brass in your face(specifically stated in the RFP).

                    There was no way this contract was going any other way. Glock has always won contracts at a loss and wins bigger with the follow on buyers. In this case it'll be thousands of US fed, state and local agencies jumping in because the FBI and the Navy SEALs did the legwork to ferret out "the best."

                    And Dan's spot on too. Having seen the cost of training Ammo for a local LE agency 9mm is cheaper than fo'tay which makes the budget folks happy.

                    ETA...

                    And while not really the case, as many agencies have adopted the 320, no one wants to be the beta tester for the product of. Sig ramping up production to meet the fed's contract. Guys have started and finished near 30 year LE and military careers with Glocks.
                    Last edited by Sherm66; 07-02-2016, 06:16 PM.
                    When they kick out your front door
                    How you gonna come?
                    With your hands on your head
                    Or on the trigger of your gun?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dan 0351 View Post
                      I have zero doubt that the FBI decision to go from .40 to 9mm was purely money-based, but I think the Glock 9's and the Sig 320 9's are around the same price - so I'm not too sure why that choice.
                      Somehow I think that the guys at their firearms unit in Quantico don't know either.
                      My understanding- which is extremely well informed- is this is correct.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jarheadsergeant View Post

                        My understanding- which is extremely well informed- is this is correct.
                        Yeah, got a couple of friends down there.

                        It's appalling.
                        Last edited by Dan 0351; 07-03-2016, 01:20 PM. Reason: spelling
                        “The Wise are silent, the Foolish speak, and children are thus led astray.”
                        Algernon Blackwood

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I also think that most of their armorers , holsters, tools spare parts etc, were factored into this decision. But like Dan pointed out, its just like back in the 80's with the Army and Beretta and Sig. Beretta got to that magic number and Sig couldn't. I'm sort of upset, I think the 320 really could have fit the bill for the FBI. Also Glock pro baby gave the FBI a bunch of free pistols, since Glock can litearlly say "Pistol that is carried by the FBI" those pistols will pretty much sell themselves. My friend was in the New York State Troopers and said Glock threw them alot of free pistols thinking that the fame would keep the .45 GAP alive.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I like the glock 17 not as much as a sig..... but they could have went with a keltech or the like LOL

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