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    #16
    Originally posted by mickeyblueyes View Post
    Ok here’s the other part of the equation. Shear firepower. Is it not true that out of a short barrel it makes no difference if it’s a 357 or 38+P? In a 2 or 3 inch barrel I have read that the ballistics are fairly the same. As much as I would like the new Kimber, does it make that much real world sense to buy it when I have Winchester Ranger +P+ loads in a Smith &Wesson 640 PC model. That’s got a pretty smooth trigger? I love 357s but I’m not going to experience it with 1 7/8 inch barrel . Your thoughts?
    There's plenty written about the .38's vs. .357's in short barrels. I personally wouldn't take a strong stand on either, but you'd have to look at how your particular rounds behave. For defensive ammo, I think we can agree that we want maximum expansion with enough penetration but not too much. Many bullets don't expand well unless it reaches a certain velocity. I haven't done the test myself, but from what I've read over and over, most .357 projectiles will smoke a .38+P in any barrel length. BUT, you also get more recoil and more blast. There's specific ammo for short barrels (powder burns faster and less is burned outside the barrel), but you don't see that as much.

    I guess if you can find a .38 or .38+P that reliably expand and penetrate as well as a .357 (with the recoil/blast) - go for it.

    While we can debate the value of defensive ammo ballistic tests in anything but human bodies (and at different angles), it's nice to have a starting point where ammo can be tested on an even playing field. LuckyGunner.com has done an amazing job (go to "LABS" on their website, then scroll all the way down to see all of the calbers and types of ammo they tested).

    Here's their results for .38 and .357 out of 2" and 4" barrels. Again, take from it what you want.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...cs-test/#38spl

    Last edited by Dan 0351; 08-03-2018, 09:14 AM.
    No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

    - U.S. Marines

    Comment


      #17
      Thanks for posting the results, it appears that 357 has greater velocity for sure, fractionally more expansion.and it seems to be a draw on depth. There are a few stand outs.

      So with this thought in mind if this gun is to be used for self defense purposes, than no dollar value can be put on it. It’s worth what ever advantage a 357 has over a 38+ anytime. Then of coarse the argument arises that if a 158 grain 357 is good a 230 grain .45 acp has just got to be better, one shot one kill? Which leads to the revolver vs semi auto. Which is a different topic. In my simple mind if your on the job and your facing danger every day your duty weapon is on your belt but sure as hell a Kimber 357 would be strapped to my ankle.( I guess that’s if dept regulations allow it?)

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        #18
        Oh no, the "caliber debate". LOL

        Here's my take on it:

        Both have good penetration...

        The best 9mm opens up around .75 inches.
        9mm Ranger T (2).jpg

        The best .45 ACP opens to ONE INCH....
        45 Ranger T (2).jpg

        Wouldn't we all want another 1/4 inch? LOL

        Of course, CAPACITY and RECOIL play a factor, that's why which caliber is "best" is really up the individual's abilities and the role the handgun is used for.
        No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

        - U.S. Marines

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Dan 0351 View Post
          Oh no, the "caliber debate". LOL

          Here's my take on it:

          Both have good penetration...

          The best 9mm opens up around .75 inches.
          9mm Ranger T (2).jpg

          The best .45 ACP opens to ONE INCH....
          45 Ranger T (2).jpg

          Wouldn't we all want another 1/4 inch? LOL

          Of course, CAPACITY and RECOIL play a factor, that's why which caliber is "best" is really up the individual's abilities and the role the handgun is used for.
          what you meant to say is .45. We all understand.
          High quality building supplies since 1948! Friendly FFL transfers of long guns, receivers, and ammunition. Feel free to call us at 516 741 4466

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            #20
            Originally posted by Volkosupply View Post

            what you meant to say is .45. We all understand.
            Yeah, but did you notice how I tried to be diplomatic? LOL
            No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

            - U.S. Marines

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              #21
              Originally posted by Dan 0351 View Post

              Yeah, but did you notice how I tried to be diplomatic? LOL
              Pat Rogers said it best.

              Bigger holes let more air in which pushes more blood out.

              Or the other fast fact....in Africa they use bullets with big frontal areas for a reason.
              High quality building supplies since 1948! Friendly FFL transfers of long guns, receivers, and ammunition. Feel free to call us at 516 741 4466

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by mickeyblueyes View Post
                Ok here’s the other part of the equation. Shear firepower. Is it not true that out of a short barrel it makes no difference if it’s a 357 or 38+P? In a 2 or 3 inch barrel I have read that the ballistics are fairly the same. As much as I would like the new Kimber, does it make that much real world sense to buy it when I have Winchester Ranger +P+ loads in a Smith &Wesson 640 PC model. That’s got a pretty smooth trigger? I love 357s but I’m not going to experience it with 1 7/8 inch barrel . Your thoughts?
                Here's a good analysis of 38+p vs 357

                 

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Dan 0351 View Post

                  To be honest, I only have two Pythons and I don't find their triggers to be as magical as others do.

                  I'm home now and here's some pics:
                  Kimber top/left, S&W 36 (J-frame) under it, and several Ruger SP101/SPNY.
                  20171214_100227.jpg

                  S&W 66, Charter Arms .44 sp., Kimber (wood grips) and the J-frame S&W 340PD (scandium/titanium)

                  Kimber K6s 3 in. 3.jpg
                  Nice.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Cool piece but I want an exposed hammer.
                    NRA Life member

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Rookie question. What are the advantages or disadvantages to an internal hammer as to an exposed hammer on a revolver.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Localx View Post
                        Rookie question. What are the advantages or disadvantages to an internal hammer as to an exposed hammer on a revolver.
                        So you can conceal it in a pocket with out the hammer getting caught on a fast draw. It limits the gun to double action only. So you need a pretty good trigger . There are some models with bobbed hammers that allow you to shoot single action.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Localx View Post
                          Rookie question. What are the advantages or disadvantages to an internal hammer as to an exposed hammer on a revolver.
                          To expand on what mickeyblueyes posted:

                          Obviously these small revolvers are built with concealed carry and 'bad breath distance' fights in mind and not extended gunfights at long ranges. You see many custom carry guns with their hammer spur cut off and rounded (bobbed).
                          What Mickey posted is spot-on. During the draw from a concealed-style holster like an appendix IWB, shoulder or bullet-resistant vest holster, ankle holster (not-so-much with a regular 3 or 4 o'clock pancake type), the hammer spur can easily get caught on things - then your day went from bad to worse, wasting precious seconds.

                          Another way to use one is to put the snubbie in your hand inside of a coat pocket when you think danger is near. You can cover or engage a close threat right from your pocket without anyone - even the threat - knowing. With a semi-auto this will/might be a problem as the slide may get caught up or not have enough room to operate, and with a revolver with an exposed hammer, the inside of the pocket might prevent the hammer from operating as well.

                          These benefits MAY override the benefit of being able to shoot the snubbie single action, depends on the individual.

                          A compromise may one of the S&W's with a shrouded hammer:

                          Last edited by Dan 0351; 08-04-2018, 09:41 AM.
                          No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

                          - U.S. Marines

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