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    #61
    Originally posted by sheeple View Post

    I don't think there's a guise, and welfare checks are done outside of new york. Police don't go into a house on a welfare check searching for anything other than the reported person to ensure their well being. We don't know what the reporting parties told police, but it apparently warranted them entering the home.

    Do we want police to help us if we need assistance but can't get to the door? Or if we call in and fall unconscious?

    Consider this case:

    "The NYPD has suspended two officers who responded to check on a Brooklyn woman who was later found dead in a stairwell.

    The officers, who are assigned to the 77th Precinct, were initially called to the home on Sterling Place in Crown Heights to check on 22-year-old Tonie Wells, but didn't find anything and left."

    http://www.policemag.com/channel/pat...ound-dead.aspx
    If it’s a welfare check why not determine if the person is home before entering? You know, repeated knocking, listening for sounds, checking for lights, funny smells?

    Why not come back? Instead you get the landlord?

    Hmmmmm
    Last edited by Synner; 04-16-2018, 05:38 AM.
    NRA Lifetime Member / NRA RSO & Certified Pistol Instructor
    NYSRPA Member / Freeport R&R Member
    Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network Member

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by sheeple View Post

      I don't think there's a guise, and welfare checks are done outside of new york. Police don't go into a house on a welfare check searching for anything other than the reported person to ensure their well being. We don't know what the reporting parties told police, but it apparently warranted them entering the home.

      Do we want police to help us if we need assistance but can't get to the door? Or if we call in and fall unconscious?

      Consider this case:

      "The NYPD has suspended two officers who responded to check on a Brooklyn woman who was later found dead in a stairwell.

      The officers, who are assigned to the 77th Precinct, were initially called to the home on Sterling Place in Crown Heights to check on 22-year-old Tonie Wells, but didn't find anything and left."

      http://www.policemag.com/channel/pat...ound-dead.aspx
      They shouldn’t have been suspended for finding nothing and leaving.
      NRA Lifetime Member / NRA RSO & Certified Pistol Instructor
      NYSRPA Member / Freeport R&R Member
      Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network Member

      Comment


        #63
        Last year I called SCPD about a home alarm that was going off for at least an hour. I waited for the cop, he walked around the house looked in the windows and knocked on the doors, nobody answered. He said he could not enter without permission. I asked if it could it be a panic alarm and the person is lying dead on the floor. He said it didn't matter.
        Different situation?
        . Later, Steve
        People are crazy and times are strange
        I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
        I used to care but........ things have changed

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Synner View Post

          If it’s a welfare check why not determine if the person is home before entering? You know, repeated knocking, listening for sounds, checking for lights, funny smells?

          Why not come back? Instead you get the landlord?

          Hmmmmm
          How do you know if that isn't what went down? Probably more to this story than the public is being told.

          Comment


            #65
            Guy was an Airsoft rep. Lol! Oops..

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by FUAC View Post

              How do you know if that isn't what went down? Probably more to this story than the public is being told.
              I don’t. But what is being reported seems.... odd.

              I am not saying that if this is all true that the dude didn’t deserve what he’s getting because he does (that is, he threatened to harm someone) but when it comes to firearms and NY, especially downstate NY, you have to wonder how much is done “by the books” with an eye on due process and all that other fun stuff that exists outside of New Yorkistan.

              And like someone pointed out, all that crap is legal in 44 other states.
              NRA Lifetime Member / NRA RSO & Certified Pistol Instructor
              NYSRPA Member / Freeport R&R Member
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                #67
                Originally posted by Synner View Post

                If it’s a welfare check why not determine if the person is home before entering? You know, repeated knocking, listening for sounds, checking for lights, funny smells?

                Why not come back? Instead you get the landlord?

                Hmmmmm
                I believe they did knock and announce themselves before getting the landlord. I wasn't there so I don't know what prompted them to enter after they didn't receive a response. During a welfare check, the officers priority is determining the status of the person in question. If he was mentally handicapped and they believed he was a danger to himself and/or others, then I imagine that would factor into why they entered the home.
                “Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are." - Benjamin Franklin

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by sheeple View Post

                  I believe they did knock and announce themselves before getting the landlord. I wasn't there so I don't know what prompted them to enter after they didn't receive a response. During a welfare check, the officers priority is determining the status of the person in question. If he was mentally handicapped and they believed he was a danger to himself and/or others, then I imagine that would factor into why they entered the home.
                  Ok. Hopefully that is what the real concern was. Again, I’m not condoning his actions but let’s not forget that some rights do (well should) exist.
                  NRA Lifetime Member / NRA RSO & Certified Pistol Instructor
                  NYSRPA Member / Freeport R&R Member
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                  Comment


                    #69
                    Big Brother looking out for our well being! I feel so loved and safe....



                    Police Can Now Say These 2 Words To Enter Your Home Without A Warrant, Judge Rules


                    Written by: Daniel Jennings Current Events June 20, 2017 31 Comments Print This ArticlePrint This Article


                    ‘Welfare Check’ – Police Now Can Enter Your Home Without Warrant, Judge Rules
                    Image source: Pixabay.com

                    A federal judge has ruled that police have the right to enter homes without a warrant as long as they claim to be conducting a “welfare check.”

                    Lieutenant Joseph Buccilli did not violate the Fourth Amendment when he forced his way into the home of Timothy, LuAnn and Joseph Batt without a warrant in 2012, U.S. District Judge Frank Geraci Jr ruled earlier this year. The case currently is being appealed, and a ruling is expected this fall.

                    Buccilli was at the home to check on the welfare of Fred Puntoriero, LuAnn’s father, who suffered from dementia.

                    The Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) is representing the family.

                    “Buccilli and another officer arrived at the Batt home and told Joe they wanted to conduct a welfare check on his grandfather,” the HSLSA reported. “After Joe respectfully refused, explaining that his grandfather had just been seen by a nurse’s aide who reported that all was well, Buccelli forced his way in.”

                    Geraci concluded in March that Buccilli was immune from the Fourth Amendment because police do not need warrants for welfare checkson at-risk adults, The New York Law Journalreported. Geraci upheld a similar decision made by U.S. Magistrate Judge Leslie Foschio of the Western District of New York in July 2016.

                    Tired Of Losing Freedoms And Looking For A Second Country? Read More Here.

                    “At issue in this case are so-called welfare checks, which we believe are being used by some officials to circumvent constitutional protection for private citizens to be safe and secure in their homes,” HSLDA contended.

                    The Batts – who are members of the HSLDA — contend Buccilli violated the Fourth Amendment by entering their home without a search warrant.

                    ‘I Have a Right to Enter the House’

                    “Numerous opinions in federal courts all the way up to the Supreme Court specifically declare that warrantless welfare checks in the home are subject to traditional Fourth Amendment analysis,” according to the HSLDA. “Unless there is a clearly defined emergency, a state official simply cannot enter a home without a court order.”

                    Buccilli said a search warrant was not needed. The encounter was recorded on video.

                    “All I know is a county agency called,” Buccilli said. “And based on their request, I have a right to enter the house and forcibly, if need be, when somebody’s welfare is possibly in question. And that’s why I’m here. The allegation was made that they wanted a welfare check.”

                    Upon entering the home, Buccilli reported that Fred Puntoriero was in a good environment.

                    HSLDA said the case could have a major effect on privacy.

                    “The Fourth Amendment right of individuals to remain safe and secure in their own homes is not only a fundamental civil liberty; it complements the right of parents to direct the education of their children from the sanctuary of home,” HSLDA argued. “Although this case deals with an unwarranted and non-emergency welfare check on an elderly person, the same principles apply to welfare checks on younger people.”

                    What do you think? Should police be able to enter a home without a warrant for a welfare check? Share your thoughts in the section below:

                    © Copyright Off The Grid News
                    7609 43 5 Google +3 0

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by LazyLab View Post
                      Big Brother looking out for our well being! I feel so loved and safe....



                      Police Can Now Say These 2 Words To Enter Your Home Without A Warrant, Judge Rules


                      Written by: Daniel Jennings Current Events June 20, 2017 31 Comments Print This ArticlePrint This Article


                      ‘Welfare Check’ – Police Now Can Enter Your Home Without Warrant, Judge Rules
                      Image source: Pixabay.com

                      A federal judge has ruled that police have the right to enter homes without a warrant as long as they claim to be conducting a “welfare check.”

                      Lieutenant Joseph Buccilli did not violate the Fourth Amendment when he forced his way into the home of Timothy, LuAnn and Joseph Batt without a warrant in 2012, U.S. District Judge Frank Geraci Jr ruled earlier this year. The case currently is being appealed, and a ruling is expected this fall.

                      Buccilli was at the home to check on the welfare of Fred Puntoriero, LuAnn’s father, who suffered from dementia.

                      The Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) is representing the family.

                      “Buccilli and another officer arrived at the Batt home and told Joe they wanted to conduct a welfare check on his grandfather,” the HSLSA reported. “After Joe respectfully refused, explaining that his grandfather had just been seen by a nurse’s aide who reported that all was well, Buccelli forced his way in.”

                      Geraci concluded in March that Buccilli was immune from the Fourth Amendment because police do not need warrants for welfare checkson at-risk adults, The New York Law Journalreported. Geraci upheld a similar decision made by U.S. Magistrate Judge Leslie Foschio of the Western District of New York in July 2016.

                      Tired Of Losing Freedoms And Looking For A Second Country? Read More Here.

                      “At issue in this case are so-called welfare checks, which we believe are being used by some officials to circumvent constitutional protection for private citizens to be safe and secure in their homes,” HSLDA contended.

                      The Batts – who are members of the HSLDA — contend Buccilli violated the Fourth Amendment by entering their home without a search warrant.

                      ‘I Have a Right to Enter the House’

                      “Numerous opinions in federal courts all the way up to the Supreme Court specifically declare that warrantless welfare checks in the home are subject to traditional Fourth Amendment analysis,” according to the HSLDA. “Unless there is a clearly defined emergency, a state official simply cannot enter a home without a court order.”

                      Buccilli said a search warrant was not needed. The encounter was recorded on video.

                      “All I know is a county agency called,” Buccilli said. “And based on their request, I have a right to enter the house and forcibly, if need be, when somebody’s welfare is possibly in question. And that’s why I’m here. The allegation was made that they wanted a welfare check.”

                      Upon entering the home, Buccilli reported that Fred Puntoriero was in a good environment.

                      HSLDA said the case could have a major effect on privacy.

                      “The Fourth Amendment right of individuals to remain safe and secure in their own homes is not only a fundamental civil liberty; it complements the right of parents to direct the education of their children from the sanctuary of home,” HSLDA argued. “Although this case deals with an unwarranted and non-emergency welfare check on an elderly person, the same principles apply to welfare checks on younger people.”

                      What do you think? Should police be able to enter a home without a warrant for a welfare check? Share your thoughts in the section below:

                      © Copyright Off The Grid News
                      7609 43 5 Google +3 0
                      Exactly what I was alluding to.
                      NRA Lifetime Member / NRA RSO & Certified Pistol Instructor
                      NYSRPA Member / Freeport R&R Member
                      Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network Member

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Welfare checks seem to be the root of all evil. Free money and free entry.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by anothersteve View Post
                          Last year I called SCPD about a home alarm that was going off for at least an hour. I waited for the cop, he walked around the house looked in the windows and knocked on the doors, nobody answered. He said he could not enter without permission. I asked if it could it be a panic alarm and the person is lying dead on the floor. He said it didn't matter.
                          Different situation?
                          . Later, Steve
                          If the officer walks around and sees nothing wrong and can't see a person lying on the floor inside they're not allowed to enter. They may enter if someone lets them in.( landlord or neighbor who has a key etc) Anything illegal which is in plain sight is then fair game.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            “Numerous opinions in federal courts all the way up to the Supreme Court specifically declare that warrantless welfare checks in the home are subject to traditional Fourth Amendment analysis,” according to the HSLDA. “Unless there is a clearly defined emergency, a state official simply cannot enter a home without a court order.”
                            I think this pretty much sums it up. IMO, there needs to be credible (not anonymous) information that the person is a threat (email/text/note/etc)...aka a reasonable person would be concerned, under the circumstances, that the individual is a threat.

                            In this instance,I believe the school official to be credible in reporting a threat from a student from so many years ago.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              So my question is ...What was the basis of wellness check ? if the Suffolk Police were doing a wellness check for the Clarkstown PD and the guy answered the door ..would the police have left and told Clarkstown PD he was ok and left..or would the Suffolk PD had arrested him? because if they were arrested him ...it doesn't seem like a well welfare check to me...
                              Last edited by crashguy; 04-16-2018, 09:12 AM.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Mrprovy View Post

                                I think this pretty much sums it up. IMO, there needs to be credible (not anonymous) information that the person is a threat (email/text/note/etc)...aka a reasonable person would be concerned, under the circumstances, that the individual is a threat.

                                In this instance,I believe the school official to be credible in reporting a threat from a student from so many years ago.
                                Yes, the threats were so unnerving they hit delete message six times.

                                Again, not saying the dude didn’t need his ass kicked or that anyone did anything wrong - what I am saying is there are a ton of holes in this story.
                                NRA Lifetime Member / NRA RSO & Certified Pistol Instructor
                                NYSRPA Member / Freeport R&R Member
                                Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network Member

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