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School me on Mental Health and Gun Ownership

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    School me on Mental Health and Gun Ownership

    A friend of mine recently approached me with some questions about his situation that I don't have answers for.

    Does anyone have experience with mental health regs as they pertain to gun ownership?

    Details and questions as follows:

    Friend gets checked into inpatient mental health facility. Not by court order, not by PO. AFAIK on paper it was self-referred (friend of his got him down there and checked in)

    Spends a couple weeks there, given meds based on self-reported symptoms but was not officially diagnosed afaik. Currently he is out with nothing but a prescription given to him by someone at the MH facility (can things be prescribed w/o a diagnosis?) and is currently sourcing his own MH professionals to find a diagnosis and treatment program.

    One of the social workers discussed his firearms with him while he was in inpatient. Social worker approached him and essentially stated that he knew a specific make/model of firearm was present in the home (not an AW or Handgun), how can this information be obtained without the owner declaring the firearm exists?

    Social worker advised him of the fact that you can not possess firearms when dealing with MH issues but did not elaborate on the specifics or how to go about surrendering the firearm .

    How does this component of gun laws work specifically?

    Additionally, my friend is concerned about how to restore his right to own and possess. Obviously this is not top priority at this point in time but he would like to know what to expect. Ive read a little bit about releif from disabilities as it applies to MH issues but the info is vague at best. Does anyone have experience with this and can explain how to do this process?

    I have other questions that are better suited to PM for privacy reasons as well.

    Please + thanks!
    It's all the same, we're all ashamed of our children who can't read between the lies of their textbooks
    This world must bear witness to a revolution every now and then
    We clutched our quills to scribe the bills of this great nation
    Now show me you can hold a fucking pen

    #2
    The only thing I can think of is: Does your friend have a social media account in his own name and has he ever posted descriptions and/or pics of his firearms there?
    I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
    I am armed out of love of those behind me.

    Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

    Comment


      #3
      When they say, "fix mental health care", this is what they should mean. Someone dealing with anxiety, stress, mild depression, shouldn't have to choose between retaining their rights and seeking help for their condition, which is exactly what happens as the law is. All it does is prevent people from getting help, thereby making their situation harder than it has to be.

      Comment


        #4
        The SW is wrong. They are most likely stating their own opinion. If it is not a handgun, the whole pistol license rules do not apply. The person was not committed, or found mentally defective, or even diagnosed??? Then what grounds are there for the SW to say such a thing? Did the patient mention they contemplated suicide? That might be the tipping point right there. As far as finding out? The SW as part of the case investigation began researching the patient's relatives, friends, co-workers and of course the firearms question comes up; "Do they own a gun?" Somebody answered yes would be my guess.
        Lieutenant: You got a pistol permit?
        Nick Charles: No.
        Lieutenant: Ever heard of the Sullivan Act?
        Nora Charles: Oh, that's all right, we're married.
        -The Thin Man - 1934

        Comment


          #5
          Most but not all MH diagnoses comes with "suicidal or homicidal" aspects of the conditions. Most of the time is suicidal spectrum. Only psychiatrist can proscribe meds, so there the answer about any meds.
          Social worker can initiate "red flag Law" procedures, I just recently saw first stats on Nassau and Suffolk "red flag law" cases.

          "The Associated Press reported Thursday that so far, data from the New York State Unified Court System indicated 51 red flag requests had been filed in Suffolk County Supreme Court as of noon Monday. Twenty of the petitions were pulled though, mostly because a protection order had already prevented the person from having weapons.

          In Nassau, that number was far lower — just four petitions, equal to Westchester County, which has about 28 percent fewer people."

          Comment


            #6
            I believe the law states...
            If you own a firearm, want to own a firearm, or are a Veteran.... you are mentally unstable and should not be allowed to own a firearm.
            Exercise the Bill of Rights. It's good for your Constitution.

            Comment


              #7
              The point here seems to the SW knew of a very specific firearm the person owned that wasn't a pistol (and therefore not listed on a permit) and presumably not a SAFE registered one either.

              So how did they find out?
              I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
              I am armed out of love of those behind me.

              Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Barnslayer View Post
                I believe the law states...
                If you own a firearm, want to own a firearm, or are a Veteran.... you are mentally unstable and should not be allowed to own a firearm.
                Ain't it the truth.

                ps- You forgot white, male heterosexual, employed, religious, Conservative/Republican.
                I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
                I am armed out of love of those behind me.

                Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by LiDad View Post
                  The point here seems to the SW knew of a very specific firearm the person owned that wasn't a pistol (and therefore not listed on a permit) and presumably not a SAFE registered one either.

                  So how did they find out?
                  Internet post or a friend with a big mouth.
                  Exercise the Bill of Rights. It's good for your Constitution.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LiDad View Post
                    The only thing I can think of is: Does your friend have a social media account in his own name and has he ever posted descriptions and/or pics of his firearms there?
                    Negative. Does not use social media
                    It's all the same, we're all ashamed of our children who can't read between the lies of their textbooks
                    This world must bear witness to a revolution every now and then
                    We clutched our quills to scribe the bills of this great nation
                    Now show me you can hold a fucking pen

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by pilot_pete View Post
                      The SW is wrong. They are most likely stating their own opinion. If it is not a handgun, the whole pistol license rules do not apply. The person was not committed, or found mentally defective, or even diagnosed??? Then what grounds are there for the SW to say such a thing? Did the patient mention they contemplated suicide? That might be the tipping point right there. As far as finding out? The SW as part of the case investigation began researching the patient's relatives, friends, co-workers and of course the firearms question comes up; "Do they own a gun?" Somebody answered yes would be my guess.
                      Self-harm was involved, yes. And I think your presumption about somebody speaking up is most likely the case
                      It's all the same, we're all ashamed of our children who can't read between the lies of their textbooks
                      This world must bear witness to a revolution every now and then
                      We clutched our quills to scribe the bills of this great nation
                      Now show me you can hold a fucking pen

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Is suicide legal? If so.... why the worry? Unless it’s only legal if you don’t shoot yourself.
                        Exercise the Bill of Rights. It's good for your Constitution.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          1 - If your friend entered an inpatient treatment facility, it is a matter of record and has to be disclosed.
                          2 - The SW is not clairvoyant, someone identified the gun ownership. It is more than routine, it is essential for the MH treatment team to speak with family, friends and prior treatment professionals. Your buddy may have indicated gun ownership to a different clinician and it made its way into his chart.
                          3 - If meds were prescribed it is almost certain that there is a related diagnosis. Perhaps acute but it’s there.
                          Russian 4 - No, every MH diagnosis does not include a risk of SI or HI. To suggest suicideality or homicidality is automatically associated w a MH condition is wrong and reckless and only perpetuates the stigma that prevents people from seeking care.
                          5 - Restoring his access to firearms is likely years down the road for your friend, if at all. I hope he focuses his energies on getting well and putting his life back on track.

                          *Some conditions such as (just examples) like eating or other compulsive behavior disorders, insomnia, phobias and others may or may not be classified as a MH disorder. Other conditions (or those examples) may be related to an underlying MH condition that causes those behaviors.

                          Getting MH advise or guidance on the interwebz is no bueno IMO. Good luck.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I have a friend who contracted a very serious case of Limes disease. He developed tremors and couldn't sleep. He was prescribed Xanax to help with his symptoms. In Suffolk Co., you have to disclose if you have taken this type of medication on the application. He was told that he could be red flagged for this and is now hesitant to apply out of fear of denial. I will be curious as to the outcome with your friend as it may impact his situation.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Huntington Guy View Post
                              1 - If your friend entered an inpatient treatment facility, it is a matter of record and has to be disclosed.
                              2 - The SW is not clairvoyant, someone identified the gun ownership. It is more than routine, it is essential for the MH treatment team to speak with family, friends and prior treatment professionals. Your buddy may have indicated gun ownership to a different clinician and it made its way into his chart.
                              3 - If meds were prescribed it is almost certain that there is a related diagnosis. Perhaps acute but it’s there.
                              Russian 4 - No, every MH diagnosis does not include a risk of SI or HI. To suggest suicideality or homicidality is automatically associated w a MH condition is wrong and reckless and only perpetuates the stigma that prevents people from seeking care.
                              5 - Restoring his access to firearms is likely years down the road for your friend, if at all. I hope he focuses his energies on getting well and putting his life back on track.

                              *Some conditions such as (just examples) like eating or other compulsive behavior disorders, insomnia, phobias and others may or may not be classified as a MH disorder. Other conditions (or those examples) may be related to an underlying MH condition that causes those behaviors.

                              Getting MH advise or guidance on the interwebz is no bueno IMO. Good luck.
                              Thanks for the thorough response. As it stands right now, he's a prohibited person on the grounds of the MH case.
                              Say he's cured of his ailments. Do you know how one goes about getting their rights back?

                              Additionally, we haven't heard a hint of red flag law type BS. Hopefully it stays that way.
                              I believe he consulted with the social worker about arranging for someone to safeguard the firearms.
                              It's all the same, we're all ashamed of our children who can't read between the lies of their textbooks
                              This world must bear witness to a revolution every now and then
                              We clutched our quills to scribe the bills of this great nation
                              Now show me you can hold a fucking pen

                              Comment

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