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School me on Mental Health and Gun Ownership

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    #16
    Originally posted by 7vette2 View Post
    I have a friend who contracted a very serious case of Limes disease. He developed tremors and couldn't sleep. He was prescribed Xanax to help with his symptoms. In Suffolk Co., you have to disclose if you have taken this type of medication on the application. He was told that he could be red flagged for this and is now hesitant to apply out of fear of denial. I will be curious as to the outcome with your friend as it may impact his situation.
    Prescribed and taken are two different things. I wonder if Ambien carries the same stigma with the pistol permit department?
    Exercise the Bill of Rights. It's good for your Constitution.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by viper720 View Post

      Thanks for the thorough response. As it stands right now, he's a prohibited person on the grounds of the MH case.
      Say he's cured of his ailments. Do you know how one goes about getting their rights back?

      Additionally, we haven't heard a hint of red flag law type BS. Hopefully it stays that way.
      I believe he consulted with the social worker about arranging for someone to safeguard the firearms.
      Not positive, but: I believe NYS Mental Health and Hygiene Law makes a provision to request a Certificate of Relief of Disabilities through NYS. I can’t speak to the distinctions between voluntary and involuntary confinement though.
      You say he is “cured” but is still on meds and seeing a professional, if I understood correctly. That’s another issue. You are in lawyer territory here which I am not.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Barnslayer View Post

        Prescribed and taken are two different things. I wonder if Ambien carries the same stigma with the pistol permit department?
        Cybalta is an antidepressant but is widely prescribed to treat neuropathy. Other meds have dual or other applications, a persons ability to self advocate and draw distinctions to nature of care, absence of risk factors and other important considerations.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Barnslayer View Post

          Prescribed and taken are two different things. I wonder if Ambien carries the same stigma with the pistol permit department?
          I hear you. He did take it for a short period of time. He is fine now. I don't want to hijack the OP's question though. Maybe I should start a new thread.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Huntington Guy View Post
            1 - If your friend entered an inpatient treatment facility, it is a matter of record and has to be disclosed.
            2 - The SW is not clairvoyant, someone identified the gun ownership. It is more than routine, it is essential for the MH treatment team to speak with family, friends and prior treatment professionals. Your buddy may have indicated gun ownership to a different clinician and it made its way into his chart.
            3 - If meds were prescribed it is almost certain that there is a related diagnosis. Perhaps acute but it’s there.
            Russian 4 - No, every MH diagnosis does not include a risk of SI or HI. To suggest suicideality or homicidality is automatically associated w a MH condition is wrong and reckless and only perpetuates the stigma that prevents people from seeking care.
            5 - Restoring his access to firearms is likely years down the road for your friend, if at all. I hope he focuses his energies on getting well and putting his life back on track.

            *Some conditions such as (just examples) like eating or other compulsive behavior disorders, insomnia, phobias and others may or may not be classified as a MH disorder. Other conditions (or those examples) may be related to an underlying MH condition that causes those behaviors.

            Getting MH advise or guidance on the interwebz is no bueno IMO. Good luck.
            I worked for 4 years with people with mental disabilities. Most of the MH diagnoses, on the far spectrum has either suicidal or homicidal tendencies. It is rare but it is always there. E.ven when people never expressed it while being diagnosed for decades it is possible for issue to get worst, all of the sudden.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Russian View Post

              I worked for 4 years with people with mental disabilities. Most of the MH diagnoses, on the far spectrum has either suicidal or homicidal tendencies. It is rare but it is always there. E.ven when people never expressed it while being diagnosed for decades it is possible for issue to get worst, all of the sudden.
              Can’t agree w you. I work in and around the MH community, including secure, acute treatment units and while we are always aware of SI and HI it is not present within every diagnosis and is not a factor in a majority of individuals. To suggest that anyone w a MH diagnosis is even at risk is an exaggeration and feeds the trolls who thrive on demonizing people both with or without a diagnosis.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Huntington Guy View Post

                Can’t agree w you. I work in and around the MH community, including secure, acute treatment units and while we are always aware of SI and HI it is not present within every diagnosis and is not a factor in a majority of individuals. To suggest that anyone w a MH diagnosis is even at risk is an exaggeration and feeds the trolls who thrive on demonizing people both with or without a diagnosis.
                I’ve never said “EVERY” diagnose. Here some numbers if you don’t believe me.

                https://www.nami.org/learn-more/ment...by-the-numbers

                Comment


                  #23
                  Where does this say most people w a MH diagnosis experience SI or HI? I don’t see that supported here.
                  • Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among people aged 10-34 in the U.S.
                  • Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the U.S.
                  • The overall suicide rate in the U.S. has increased by 31% since 2001
                  • 46% of people who die by suicide had a diagnosed mental health condition
                  • 90% of people who die by suicide had shown symptoms of a mental health condition, according to interviews with family, friends and medical professionals (also known as psychological autopsy)
                  • Lesbian, gay and bisexual youth are 4x more likely to attempt suicide than straight youth
                  • 75% of people who die by suicide are male
                  • Transgender adults are nearly 12x more likely to attempt suicide than the general population
                  • Annual prevalence of serious thoughts of suicide, by U.S. demographic group:
                    • 4.3% of all adults
                    • 11.0% of young adults aged 18-25
                    • 17.2% of high school students
                    • 47.7% of lesbian, gay, and bisexual high school students

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Huntington Guy View Post
                    Where does this say most people w a MH diagnosis experience SI or HI? I don’t see that supported here.
                    • Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among people aged 10-34 in the U.S.
                    • Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the U.S.
                    • The overall suicide rate in the U.S. has increased by 31% since 2001
                    • 46% of people who die by suicide had a diagnosed mental health condition
                    • 90% of people who die by suicide had shown symptoms of a mental health condition, according to interviews with family, friends and medical professionals (also known as psychological autopsy)
                    • Lesbian, gay and bisexual youth are 4x more likely to attempt suicide than straight youth
                    • 75% of people who die by suicide are male
                    • Transgender adults are nearly 12x more likely to attempt suicide than the general population
                    • Annual prevalence of serious thoughts of suicide, by U.S. demographic group:
                      • 4.3% of all adults
                      • 11.0% of young adults aged 18-25
                      • 17.2% of high school students
                      • 47.7% of lesbian, gay, and bisexual high school students
                    1 in 25 U.S. adults experience serious mental illness each year
                    • 46% of people who die by suicide had a diagnosed mental health condition
                    do you see correlation?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Huntington Guy View Post

                      Cybalta is an antidepressant but is widely prescribed to treat neuropathy. Other meds have dual or other applications, a persons ability to self advocate and draw distinctions to nature of care, absence of risk factors and other important considerations.
                      It would stink for someone taking a multipurpose Rx for a physical problem to be red flagged because that Rx can also treat a psychiatric problem.
                      Exercise the Bill of Rights. It's good for your Constitution.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Russian View Post

                        1 in 25 U.S. adults experience serious mental illness each year
                        • 46% of people who die by suicide had a diagnosed mental health condition
                        do you see correlation?
                        1 in 25 is a long way from most.
                        46% of completed suicides had a diagnosed medical condition ignores the reality that they are not representative of a generalized cross section of the community, or even patients. Analysis of a pool of completed suicides would certainly show a correlation to prior MH condition. Not apples to apples

                        Comment


                          #27
                          To answer your hypothetical question about how to restore his rights, the answer in NY is always going to be: hire a lawyer and bring a lawsuit. The state and county will never voluntarily initiate any effort in getting a gun back into the hands of a civilian. My prediction is he'll need a brave doctor to certify him as no threat, and a lawyer to press the case.
                          Ballistic: "Grif... You are my legal eagle spirit animal...."

                          Comment


                            #28
                            My better half is a Clinical Neuro-Psychologist, and my only advice is to remove the guns from the home voluntarily by having them safeguarded (transferred legally) by a trusted friend or logged into a gunshop.

                            This way, when your friend is in a better place he can recover his guns. Any other avenue and recovery of the guns becomes a long, expensive process.

                            And by the way, any medical/mental health professional with a "license to practice" CAN NOT be 2A friendly to anyone. So get the guns out of reach!

                            THIS IS MY ADVICE, NOT HERS !!!
                            Last edited by PeterGunn; 10-09-2019, 07:50 AM.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by 7vette2 View Post
                              I have a friend who contracted a very serious case of Limes disease. He developed tremors and couldn't sleep. He was prescribed Xanax to help with his symptoms. In Suffolk Co., you have to disclose if you have taken this type of medication on the application. He was told that he could be red flagged for this and is now hesitant to apply out of fear of denial. I will be curious as to the outcome with your friend as it may impact his situation.
                              First ask your friend this question; Is the MD who prescribed the Xanax OK with him owning a gun? If the answer is Yes, then there is nothing to worry about. On the SUFFOLK application (which is ridiculously INVASIVE BTW) he will need to disclose the prescription and provide the name and address of the prescribing MD. At the time of the interview, the PLB will send the MD directly a form that he must fill out and have notarized, in which he affirms that in no way will the medication or the condition, prevent the safe ownership of a gun by the individual. You then pick up the form from the MD and either mail or drop off at the PLB. That's it!

                              Now anywhere else in Newyorkistan, and also on the NYSP version of the application (which we fill out), NOWHERE do they ask you about specific types of meds that you or "anyone in your household" take. It is complete BS! As long as you can answer NO to the questions about commitment and/or being declared mentally incompetent, there is no "red flag" as far as MH issues go.
                              Lieutenant: You got a pistol permit?
                              Nick Charles: No.
                              Lieutenant: Ever heard of the Sullivan Act?
                              Nora Charles: Oh, that's all right, we're married.
                              -The Thin Man - 1934

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Grifhunter View Post
                                To answer your hypothetical question about how to restore his rights, the answer in NY is always going to be: hire a lawyer and bring a lawsuit. The state and county will never voluntarily initiate any effort in getting a gun back into the hands of a civilian. My prediction is he'll need a brave doctor to certify him as no threat, and a lawyer to press the case.
                                This. ^. Gonna take time and money. And a doctor to vouch for him.

                                Hope he gets his life back in order and starts living a happier life.

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