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    NRA Selling us out

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nr...rticle/2593977

    #2
    How is that "selling us out"? Do you think that someone under federal investigation for terrorism should be able to purchase firearms without higher than average scrutiny? I am the first to yell and scream about imposition on people's second amendment rights, but there is no way in hell you will convince me that this is not a good idea.


    I will say, before I get roasted for the slippery slope concept, that if this is instituted, then the criteria for being put on a federal terror watch list must be clearly defined and unambiguous in its interpretation, meaning and intent. Also, there must be a clear process to disputing one's inclusion on a terror watch list, with ability to expeditiously and entirely get yourself removed from that list if you are in fact mistakenly included.

    Plain and simple, anyone under federal investigation should fail a NICS check.

    Comment


    • Dropkick
      Dropkick commented
      Editing a comment
      Your comments are what's wrong with the gun community to many rush to volunteer to give up our freedoms and rights. Freedom isn't free

    • Idiocracy
      Idiocracy commented
      Editing a comment
      negative there ghostrider. Im not rushing to give up anything. I don't agree with the NICS check at all. But the fact is that the NICS check system is in place and it isn't going anywhere. When an idiot liberal gets on TV and rails about the fact that "you can order scary black guns on ebay and have them shipped to your house..." the first thing we respond with is the fact that that statement is utter horseshit, and every gun purchased legally from a licensed FFL is subject to a NICS check. That same system can and should be used to preclude those being federally investigated for fucking TERRORISM. Plain and simple. If you can get denied for having a domestic abuse allegation....allegation, not even a conviction, then why in the fuck would anyone think its okay to not apply that same level of scrutiny to some pole smoking Waka Waka from DirkaDirkastan?

      Trust me friend, I surrender no rights or freedoms in allowing a system that is in place to work in my favor. And don't talk to me about the price of freedom...I've paid that price in blood.

    #3
    Originally posted by Idiocracy View Post
    How is that "selling us out"? Do you think that someone under federal investigation for terrorism should be able to purchase firearms without higher than average scrutiny? I am the first to yell and scream about imposition on people's second amendment rights, but there is no way in hell you will convince me that this is not a good idea.


    I will say, before I get roasted for the slippery slope concept, that if this is instituted, then the criteria for being put on a federal terror watch list must be clearly defined and unambiguous in its interpretation, meaning and intent. Also, there must be a clear process to disputing one's inclusion on a terror watch list, with ability to expeditiously and entirely get yourself removed from that list if you are in fact mistakenly included.

    Plain and simple, anyone under federal investigation should fail a NICS check.
    ummm fuck that. Prosecute or sit the fuck down.

    Want to deny rights? There's a clear fucking path written in the constitution which is called due process.

    You got a problem with that then fuck you too.

    Comment


    • Idiocracy
      Idiocracy commented
      Editing a comment
      I can't argue with that. Maybe the move is just like you said, instead of denying watch listers, simply charge them. I don't think that will happen either for 1 of a thousand reasons. Either way, this is a shitty time to be an unarmed good guy.

    • mossy930spx
      mossy930spx commented
      Editing a comment
      Aint that the fucking truth.... which is why I'm moving to free America.

      Sorry if I'm a dick I just have lost my filter the past few days because NOBODY is holding the FBI accountable for this entire fucking mess. No accountability in our government but I'm the problem because i exercise my rights according to the letter of the law.

    • Idiocracy
      Idiocracy commented
      Editing a comment
      Im with you man. I did get pissy in return and it sucks...the whole direction right now just sucks. Between the cunt on her way to the white house because our elected shit heads don't have a spine and the current racist in chief dividing this place like a Christmas ham, we are screwed 7 ways from Sunday.

      You nailed it...no accountability whatsoever. Have a good night...whats left of it anyway.
      Last edited by Idiocracy; 06-15-2016, 10:57 PM.

    #4
    how , if your on the terror list , they investigate your , if its pointless you get off the list and buy the gun . if you on the list there has to be a way off

    Comment


      #5
      Frankly it depends upon what they mean by "due process."

      Comment


        #6
        I have the right to face my accuser in a court of law. Not some faceless prick behind a desk that arbitrarily decides to put me on a list.

        Comment


        • Idiocracy
          Idiocracy commented
          Editing a comment
          Don't ask dumb questions. You know damn well that I don't hate freedom, and that I do understand the concept of due process. I also understand that there is that grey area, that time frame where a case is being built, but no charges have been made.

          What do you propose we do in that situation? Does the known radical islamist pass or fail the NICS check or not?

        • mossy930spx
          mossy930spx commented
          Editing a comment
          don't take a dumb ass fucking position.

          First the Boston bombers and this recent fuck were interviewed and CLEARED by the FBI. So don't play fucking baby games like "does a radical islamist pass a NICS".

          If DHS or FBI or CIA or any other 3 letter agency is already monitoring someone suspected of possible terrorism why the fuck aren't they swooping in when they DO buy a gun and start prosecuting procedures..... They are already being monitored and or tailed.

          Prosecute or sit down because you are doing EXACTLY what these people want you to do... circumvent the constitution and back dooring rights in the name of "safety" when in fact the government can't even keep you safe in the first place because these camel jockey sand rat bastards WERE investigated and cleared and then DID kill innocent people.

          And now you want these civil service fucktards to deny me my rights?! When the former Majority Leader of the US Senate calls me an NRA member a fucking domestic terrorist on the floor of the Senate....

          un-fucking-real. You... pull your shit together. all of it.

        • Idiocracy
          Idiocracy commented
          Editing a comment
          again, I can't argue. I don't know why the 3 letter agencies aren't swooping in. No one does. The fact is that they don't, and they get it wrong...a lot. And the results are you're Bostons and Orlandos. Its shitty and I don't have an answer. And I'm in that same boat being labeled a domestic terrorist for more than one reason. Ultimately, I think you are right, when Waka rings the NICS bell, the Feds should snatch him up right there and levy charges with whatever they have. But you know that won't happen. They will continue with the status quo.
          Last edited by Idiocracy; 06-15-2016, 10:53 PM. Reason: edited to stay friends.

        #7
        You're right. "the criteria for being put on a federal terror watch list must be clearly defined and unambiguous in its interpretation, meaning and intent". "Also, there must be a clear process to disputing one's inclusion on a terror watch list, with ability to expeditiously and entirely get yourself removed from that list if you are in fact mistakenly included." Agreed 100%...

        Problem is: there isn't. It's reported that 40 percent of the no fly list is erroneous, and ACLU challenged the government in Civil court regarding lack of adequate due process and violating the constitution. US military personnel were put on the list and never told why and were stranded overseas. I agree with you. I do not want to see suspected terrorists buy guns,. but I feel that the government is too incompetent to put a fair and constitutional process in place.

        Comment


        • Idiocracy
          Idiocracy commented
          Editing a comment
          I agree. In theory the NICS should talk to any ongoing federal investigations. In practice, the government made a gambling facility (OTB) go broke!

        #8
        Originally posted by Idiocracy View Post
        How is that "selling us out"? Do you think that someone under federal investigation for terrorism should be able to purchase firearms without higher than average scrutiny? I am the first to yell and scream about imposition on people's second amendment rights, but there is no way in hell you will convince me that this is not a good idea.


        I will say, before I get roasted for the slippery slope concept, that if this is instituted, then the criteria for being put on a federal terror watch list must be clearly defined and unambiguous in its interpretation, meaning and intent. Also, there must be a clear process to disputing one's inclusion on a terror watch list, with ability to expeditiously and entirely get yourself removed from that list if you are in fact mistakenly included.

        Plain and simple, anyone under federal investigation should fail a NICS check.
        The Domestic Terrorism Executive Committee will focus on extremists motivated by antigovernment and racial hatred, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement Tuesday.

        Do you like the government? What are your feelings on EBT cards?

        Perhaps you are an anti government racist?

        The words come into play, the meaning of those words rests in the people who define them, not the people who read them.

        We can all be terrorists at the drop of a hat when the .gov turns even further left.

        Sadly though, this is a fight we are not going to win on. Say what you will, I agree that the NRA and Trump should take the hard nosed route.

        I'll still take Trump over Hillary and take the NRA over The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
        The escape is complete. The inventor of Hawk fishing. (soon to be seen on ESPN 8 the Ocho)

        Comment


          #9
          Reason number 4,729 why you shouldn't read the Washington examiner.

          Comment


            #10
            Originally posted by Llaara View Post
            I feel that the government is too incompetent to put a fair and constitutional process in place.
            And that's exactly how it was intended to appear. The plan is going according to plan thus far.

            Comment


              #11
              If you have committed no crime - prohibiting a purchase is called prior restraint... Make it so anyone on a 'list' is prohibited - and you can bet suddenly people will start being put on the list because "he want's to buy an 'assault weapon' - so he MUST be a terrorist" or "He yelled at Senator schmuck... he MUST be mentally unstable"

              and with no due process protections our rights dissolve.

              Comment


              • Idiocracy
                Idiocracy commented
                Editing a comment
                I wholly agree, thats why I mentioned above that in theory, it would be nice if it could work, but in practice, it doesn't stand a chance.

              #12
              I'll take my chances with the terrorists over my own government.

              If you want to arrest me, deny my 2A rights or stop me from getting on an airplane you need to go to a judge, get a warrant and read me my rights. If you don't do that you can go fuck yourself.
              Giza Development: Building and Renovating Pyramids of Distinction Since 2435 BC 631-427-1691 (Beware the Sea People)

              Comment


                #13
                We are gonna wake up one day (soon in a Hillary as POTUS world) with special panels or courts, similar to FISA, where they will add Americans to these lists for 'secret' reasons. That's a bell we will not be able to unring.
                Too many moving violations? Add him to a list.
                Purchased 500 rds of ammo in a calendar year? List
                Cops called to your house for a domestic? Yep
                3, 4, 5 NICS inquiries in a year? Top of the list

                These may be silly examples but that's the point. Who decides? With what oversight? What are the limits on such authority? Are you notified upon being placed on a list? Is there a process to appeal and be removed!

                The door doesn't have to open wide, it just has to open.

                Comment


                  #14
                  Ban the AR-15! The Orlando terrorist didn't use an AR-15.

                  Prohibit people on the Terror Watch list from buying guns. The Orlando terrorist wasn't on the Terror Watch list.

                  These are diversions by people who want to deflect the focus where it belongs: the Obama administration for the promotion of PC & Open Borders. If Trump goes along with this, as far as I'm concerned, I'm done with him. I'm not in this for more Pyrrhic victories. We need people who will fight to solve real problems using real solutions. I want to know why the agencies didn't stop this guy from buying firearms yet they prohibited him from buying body armor? I want to know the background of his Afghan parents. How did they come here? Why? Who is on the Terror Watchlist now? What's the composition? Domestic militia types or Islamic scumbags that we just let into the country within the last decade.

                  If you support PC BS like this new/old initiative, then you're just giving support & comfort to the enemy.

                  Comment


                    #15
                    For those that support the list, get ready to be on it. There are people on the list that have no issues past or present. I have met a retired NYPD officer who is on the list, they expect it was a case of identity theft. Doesn't matter, no way off the list. Had to get a UPIN number and still gets delayed.

                    The list has active US military, at least one Federal Air Marshall and former Senator Ted Kennedy. Before you make jokes about Kennedy being on it. Reflect for a minute that a man from one of the most powerful families in the country and a US Senator with vast political connections could not get off the list, what chance does anyone else have.

                    They are pushing hard for this because it is such a slippery slope with no DUE PROCESS.

                    NRA Life Member - On the list
                    Buy more than two hand guns in a week (Multi sale form to ATF) - On the list
                    Buy a large amount of ammo (over 100 rounds) - On the list
                    Place large order of reloading powder to split with your buddies - On the list

                    Comment

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