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    Red Flag Laws- Here what will happen

    Red Flag Laws. Here’s what will happen...

    It’s a Sunday night and your family has all gone to bed. You let the dogs back in and lock the deadbolt like you do every night. All the lights are off now except a couple of night lights scattered throughout the house leaving that dim glow throughout your home. It’s bedtime and work and school are going to come early in the morning. You crawl in bed, kiss your wife and drift off to sleep being thankful for the air conditioning that allows you to pull that heavy quilt up over your shoulder despite the fact it’s still 85 degrees outside. A few hours pass...
    0200 Monday morning and your wife taps your leg and says, “baby I heard something outside”. As you sit up in bed you hear the dog growling in the living room and you know something isn’t right. You grab that trusty ole 870 and head into the living room. Your wife grabs her 9mm and heads down the hall to the kids rooms just like you have rehearsed. “Good boy” you say as you enter the living room, trying to calm both the dog and your wife just as splinters fly across the room and the front door flys open. “Oh shit!” As you shoulder your weapon and send a load of 00 Buck across your living room and see the perpetrator fall in a heap. Before the “thank God” can even run across your brain, you see a second man coming in the door and you fire again. This time you hear the pop of your wife’s 9mm as she has joined in the fight. It has to be those damn meth heads from down in town! Just then you are consumed by a wall of bullets as you see multiple muzzle flashes from just outside the door and you realize something isn’t right. You turn to yell at your wife to “get down” just in time to see her take a load of buckshot to the face and her brain matter splatter the wall behind her. You feel the burning as 5.56 bullets Riddle your body. One clips your spine as you’re scrambling away and paralyzes your lower body. The last thing you see before you bleed out is a SWAT guy from your local PD holding your teenage daughter on the floor with a knee in her back as she screams and cry’s because she just watched her parents being murdered.
    Why did this happen? You’re no criminal. You’re a Conservative and an honest family man. Your wife is a school teacher and your daughters are on honor roll. Why did this happen?
    Well two days ago, you and your wife went down to welcome the new neighbors to the community. Your wife made them some of her “world famous” cookies and you invited them to church on Sunday. Later that afternoon, you got a friend request on Facebook from your new neighbor, which you gladly accepted. They seemed a little odd, but in the few minutes you talked they were pleasant enough. The next day while you and your family sat in church, your new neighbor scrolled through your Facebook profile. He saw that “Trump 2020” post and got infuriated. See, he’s a staunch liberal and he hates your kind. The next thing he sees are the hunting pictures you took last fall when your daughter bagged her first buck. Now he’s seething with fury because he is wholeheartedly against the “slaughter of innocent animals”. Next he sees your post from the last range day with your buddy and sees those scary black assault weapons on the table and that does it! He has to do something about the racist domestic terrorist living next door. He picks up the phone, calls the local Sheriffs Office and reports you as a threat under the new Red Flag law. The SO follows their SOP’s and conducts a no knock warrant because you have now been denied due process and you are considered guilty until proven innocent.
    Now you, your lovely wife and two deputies have been killed for nothing. Your daughter will have absolute hell for the rest of her life. She will never be that successful person you dreamed for her to be because of the mental tragedy caused from seeing her parents murdered. The local news paper will report that you were killed after firing on and killing two deputies and that “over a thousand rounds of ammo and 22 guns were confiscated from your residence”.
    Oh, those two deputies were just following orders. They left behind families as well and had served their community for over a decade. They didn’t know you were a stand-up guy with a great family. They weren’t allowed time to investigate things under due process. They were told you had threatened your neighbor and were out in the street waving an AR15 around.
    This is the reality of Red Flag gun laws.
    Innocent people will lose their lives.
    Red Flag laws will be used for petty and vengeful reasons without merit.
    They must be stopped.

    Three Percenters - Original - Kentucky

    #2
    Depends what you want to believe I guess--

    To help New Yorkers understand how the system is supposed to work, The Buffalo News reached out to the state Unified Court System, which is chiefly responsible for implementing the procedures called for in the new law.

    Administrative judges across the state “are still working out many of the logistics,” wrote Lucian Chalfen, director of public information for the court system, in an email late last month. Chalfen declined to answer questions about how the process will work.

    The News spoke with Simon and Erie County District Attorney John J. Flynn about how the law is supposed to work. Flynn said he anticipates some “bumps in the road” as officials get the process up and running.

    What is an "extreme risk protection order"?

    The new law creates these orders, which are similar in concept to a temporary restraining order, Simon and Flynn said. If granted, the order would prohibit a person from buying, possessing or attempting to buy a gun. A gun, under the law, is defined to be a “firearm, rifle or shotgun.”

    “You’re asking the court to basically temporarily take someone’s guns from them and/or prevent them from buying guns in the future,” Flynn said.

    There are two steps: There’s an initial order issued by a judge and then a hearing must be held three to six days later, at which time an order can be put into effect for up to a year. The initial order is called a “temporary” order, and an order issued after a hearing is described as the “final” order.

    How does the process to obtain an order begin?

    An application would be made in State Supreme Court, in the county where the person against whom the order is sought lives.

    Who can request one?

    Applications for the orders can be made by a police officer; the district attorney who has jurisdiction; a family or household member of the person against whom the order is sought; or a school administrator or that administrator’s designee. The school officials with that power are those in the district where the subject is enrolled or where they had been enrolled in the prior six months.

    The idea behind the bill, according to Simon, is that people close to a person – those who would be in a position to know – would be aware if an individual poses a threat.

    What must be shown to obtain an order?

    The application must include a sworn statement and include information about whether the person asking for the order knows or has reason to believe the would-be subject of the order owns, possesses or has access to guns. The application should include where the guns are located, with as much specificity as possible.

    At the time of the initial application, a judge will issue an order when the applicant shows the subject “is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to himself, herself or others,” the law states. The applicant’s burden of proof at that time is one of “probable cause.”

    Things a person writes online or says to others could be considered.

    Under the law, the judge should consider “any relevant factors,” including any threat or act of violence or uses of physical force by the subject against themselves or another person; violations or alleged violations of orders of protection; a pending charge or a conviction for an offense that involves the use of a weapon; the reckless use or display of a gun; any history of violating extreme risk protection orders; evidence of recent or ongoing abuse of drugs or alcohol; or evidence the person recently acquired a gun, other deadly weapon or ammunition. Under this part of the law, “recent” is defined as within the last six months.

    Comment


      #3
      The use of red flag laws has already happened between a spat with two New York judges, and this was a full month BEFORE the law became into effect....

      https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/e...-takes-effect/

      A former town judge in New York has been the victim of a personally and politically motivated gun confiscation scheme a full month before the state’s new red flag law is set to take effect, according to the judge’s lawyers at 2AWNY.

      Law enforcement in Allegany County seized the firearms belonging to former Town of Allen Justice Bridgette A. Tojek after County Court Judge Thomas P. Brown suspended her license to own a handgun pending an upcoming hearing on July 31.




      Tojek’s attorneys at the western New York gun-rights group 2AWNY released a statement arguing that the judge’s actions were prompted by personal and political animus rather than any valid disqualifying behavior.

      “They leveraged red flag-style gun confiscation for the purposes of personal retribution,” 2AWNY’s Steve Felano told GunsAmerica. “They dislike her socially and politically, and the fact that she owns guns makes her a target.”




      Tojek’s firearms were confiscated after a single member of the Allegany County Board submitted an ex parte affidavit requesting Tojek’s pistol license be suspended. Felano said the board member had a personal grudge against Tojek after the former justice said disparaging things about the board member in public.

      An Allegany County Judge, Terrence M. Parker, also claimed that Tojek “continually disparaged me and my family publicly in her Court and in Town meetings.” Judge Parker asked Judge Brown to review Tojek’s pistol permit application because he “would have a predisposition to deny her application.”

      Judge Parker made that request in April of last year; fifteen months later, Judge Brown suspended Tojek’s license and seized her firearms.
      As a motivation for Judge Brown’s decision, Felano also mentioned an incident involving Judge Parker’s son, who was cited for a traffic violation but didn’t show up to his court date. When Tojek levied the full penalty on Judge Parker’s son, Felano claims, the judge wasn’t happy.

      “She didn’t play by the good-ol’-boy’s rules and dismiss the ticket based on nepotism or familiar relations,” Felano said.

      SEE ALSO: Teachers Now Have Confiscation Power Under New York’s Red Flag Law

      Judge Brown hasn’t provided any further rationale for his decision. In a letter to Tojek, Brown simply stated the time and place of the hearing and that the court would not provide her with a lawyer. He may have left one clue as to his court’s thought process, however, when he asked Tojek to bring “any documents with you that would aid the court in deciding this matter, such as mental health evaluations, etc.”

      GunsAmerica contacted Judge Brown’s office but was rerouted to the Public Information Division of New York’s court system. Director of Public Information Lucian Chalfen said that Judge Brown cannot comment on this case since it is a pending matter in his court.

      “This hearing, however,” Chalfen said, “stems from New York State Town and Village Justice Bridgette Tojek’s being relieved from her judicial duties by the Deputy Chief Administrative Judge who supervises all judges outside of New York City because of her behavior on the bench.”

      Chalfen did not elaborate on Tojek’s actions, but asserted that Tojek will have “full due process rights at the hearing, that would include her lawyer being able to call witnesses and state her case to the Judge.”

      This “due process,” of course, will happen after Tojek’s firearms have already been taken away.

      Felano clarified that Judge Brown didn’t actually cite New York’s new red flag law as justification for the seizure, but the judge’s seize-the-guns-now-ask-questions-later strategy will soon be enshrined in New York state law – and other states should take notice. Especially in states with “may issue” permitting requirements, red flag laws are ripe for abuse.

      “You see all the hallmarks of red flag laws happening here before the thing is even active, and it should be a wake-up call for people in New York State and all across the country,” Felano said. “In states with these ‘may issue’ pistol permitting systems, red flag type confiscation has been happening for a long time, but no one’s been aware of it and it hasn’t been as easy. But now it’s going to be very easy [in New York] because these unconstitutional means of confiscation will become enshrined in law in August.”

      “I, along with other Second Amendment advocates, have pointed out that this type of gun confiscation will be abused by people who want to punish their enemies. And here you have a situation as a case in point of that very thing,” Felano concluded.

      SEE ALSO: New York Passes Sweeping Anti-Gun Bills Disarming Teachers, Requiring 30-Day Waiting Period

      Tojek’s case also shows the constitutional liabilities of New York’s pistol permit requirement.

      “Judge Terrance admits in his letter that Ms. Tojek’s protected First Amendment actions would sway his judgment in granting or denying a permit,” Felano argued.

      “As you can see here, we have one single judge acting in an administrative capacity who has the total power to suspend or give full force to someone’s Second Amendment constitutional rights, and is allowing a personal matter to affect that.”

      2AWNY is a “force multiplier” for the numerous gun-rights groups operating in western New York, Felano said. It handles media relations and conducts policy analysis for all the groups, but most of its activity involves working with liberty-minded attorneys to sue the state over anti-gun policies, including the SAFE Act and other gun-control edicts like the red flag law.

      Felano co-founded the group with fellow attorney Jim Ostrowski because he saw a need for the various pro-gun groups to unify.

      “Western New York is a Second Amendment stronghold for the state, but every apparatus in state government is controlled by far-left autocratic legislators,” he said. “I saw a need for some unity in the movement, specifically in the 17 counties that make up western New York.”

      Tojek’s hearing will take place on July 31 at 10:00 a.m. at the Allegany County Court House. 2AWNY encourages all Second Amendment supporters to attend, and there will be a press conference following.

      Comment


        #4
        Here is how it actually goes down -

        Forced traffic stop away from home or at work (imagine the repercussions of that).

        They will not be kicking in your door at 2am. You will not have a chance to “from my cold dead hands” and so despite whatever mutual defense pact you have in place with your friend and neighbors, no one will know it’s happening and no one will come to your aid.

        These won’t be no-knock drug raids as they don’t need to catch you with evidence. In fact No Evidence is needed and no due process.

        Start burying.

        Welcome to the police state.

        Comment


          #5
          and...stay off facebook
          "The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth."

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Vitaman View Post
            and...stay off facebook
            And....keep a low profile as to who knows you own firearms, as well as what kind and how many.
            I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
            I am armed out of love of those behind me.

            Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by E View Post
              Here is how it actually goes down -

              Forced traffic stop away from home or at work (imagine the repercussions of that).

              They will not be kicking in your door at 2am. You will not have a chance to “from my cold dead hands” and so despite whatever mutual defense pact you have in place with your friend and neighbors, no one will know it’s happening and no one will come to your aid.

              These won’t be no-knock drug raids as they don’t need to catch you with evidence. In fact No Evidence is needed and no due process.

              Start burying.

              Welcome to the police state.
              Disagree.

              The point is to get the guns away from you AND to make you an example to others.

              You probably won't have any firearms with you to/from work, and no one will see you being stopped.

              I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
              I am armed out of love of those behind me.

              Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by E View Post
                Here is how it actually goes down -

                Forced traffic stop away from home or at work (imagine the repercussions of that).

                They will not be kicking in your door at 2am. You will not have a chance to “from my cold dead hands” and so despite whatever mutual defense pact you have in place with your friend and neighbors, no one will know it’s happening and no one will come to your aid.

                These won’t be no-knock drug raids as they don’t need to catch you with evidence. In fact No Evidence is needed and no due process.

                Start burying

                Welcome to the police state.
                Don’t know who said it but...

                ”If it is time to start burying your guns, it it past the time to start digging them up”

                Last edited by Sparks25; 08-13-2019, 01:09 PM. Reason: had to rearrange
                Give peace a chance, I'll cover you in case that doesn't work out.

                LIBERALISM should be classified as a MENTAL DISORDER!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Last year at work we had a guy who was fired for (supposedly) cause. I heard the reason was said his work just wasn't up to requirements and he had been given several notices to improve but hadn't. I can't say how true that is as he was in a different group. I may have passed him in the hallway a few times but couldn't pick him out of a line up. This happened shortly after the Vegas shootings.

                  We (the rest of the department and the office overall) were told that on his exit HR interview he was very agitated, expressed that he felt the dismissal was w/o cause and total BS, and as he was being escorted out said something along the lines of "this is the kind of thing that causes Vegas to happen."

                  Well.....they went into a tither. The police were called and the company made a report. They hired a guard for the hallways (unarmed of course) for the next 2 weeks.

                  Nothing ever happened but I wonder if this would have gotten him RFL'd?
                  I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
                  I am armed out of love of those behind me.

                  Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LiDad View Post
                    They hired a guard for the hallways (unarmed of course) for the next 2 weeks.:
                    In all seriousness, if the threat was that viable what would this even accomplish?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by oshwan View Post

                      In all seriousness, if the threat was that viable what would this even accomplish?
                      Squat!

                      But it made people feel better.
                      I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
                      I am armed out of love of those behind me.

                      Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I'm playing Devil's Advocate here...What's the difference between a Red Flag Law and a search warrant? Several agencies have to present evidence to a judge and that judge has to sign off on it. The kid that committed Parkland was on the school list, FBI list, police list, etc. everyone knew he was going to go off the rails and he did. I'm asking for a friend.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Vitaman View Post
                          and...stay off facebook
                          So give up your 1A rights for keeping (temporarily, until they make the next move) 2A rights?

                          I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
                          I am armed out of love of those behind me.

                          Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by spider View Post
                            I'm playing Devil's Advocate here...What's the difference between a Red Flag Law and a search warrant? Several agencies have to present evidence to a judge and that judge has to sign off on it. The kid that committed Parkland was on the school list, FBI list, police list, etc. everyone knew he was going to go off the rails and he did. I'm asking for a friend.
                            My understanding of RFL is there is no "evidence" to present. Just someone saying they feel threatened or claiming you made a threat etc.

                            I don't think (hope!) no judge would issue a warrant based on 1 person's say so.

                            In the Parkland case there seems to have been plenty of cause but that's not what RFL is about.
                            I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
                            I am armed out of love of those behind me.

                            Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by spider View Post
                              I'm playing Devil's Advocate here...What's the difference between a Red Flag Law and a search warrant? Several agencies have to present evidence to a judge and that judge has to sign off on it. The kid that committed Parkland was on the school list, FBI list, police list, etc. everyone knew he was going to go off the rails and he did. I'm asking for a friend.
                              Because a warrant is searching for specific evidence.
                              Red Flag is a judge based on one sided testimony deems you guilty and confiscates your property and denys your Constituional rights.

                              The Parkland punk had literally commited crimes and could have been charged.
                              The police had been called to his house for assaults over 40 times
                              He was expelled from school but not charged with crimes because of "restorative justice" discipline programs that were encorugaed by the Obama adnministration.
                              He was also known to mental health experts as being mentally unstable AND he made terroristic threats that were reported to the FBI twice.

                              There were literally score of things this guy did that should have caused his arrest and put him in jail or a mental hospital and his rights to buy or posses firearms suspended.
                              But the government failed to enforce existing laws and protocols on dozens of occassions.
                              Last edited by Aquabach; 08-13-2019, 02:59 PM.
                              "Get a Dog. Cause Cats Are For Bitches!"

                              Comment

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