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Who will pay the 14 billion for the wall?

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    Who will pay the 14 billion for the wall?

    A Strange irony, El Chapo will! It seems that 14 billion is exactly his net worth.

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Does Mexican Drug Lord El Chapo Guzmán Have The $14 Billion The U.S. Wants From Him? Dolia Estevez ,


    I cover Mexico's billionaires,
    politics and U.S.-Mexico relations

    Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

    U.S. authorities are seeking the "forfeiture of more than $14 billion in cash proceeds from narcotic sales" that Mexican drug lord Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán Loera, the leader of the world’s biggest narcotics cartel, has allegedly earned over a 30 year-long criminal career, the Department of Justice said in a statement last Friday. Guzmán was extradited to the U.S. last week.

    “Guzmán Loera is the alleged leader of a multi-billion dollar,
    multi-national criminal enterprise that funneled drugs onto our streets and violence and misery into our communities,” Acting Attorney General Sally Q. Yates, said in the statement.

    Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, being escorted the day of his extradition, January 19 (U.S. law enforcement via AP)

    Guzmán pleaded not guilty to charges of running a multi-billion-dollar drug empire in federal court in Brooklyn on Friday. He is currently awaiting trial in a lower Manhattan maximum-security prison. Guzmán twice escaped from prison in Mexico.

    The $14 billion amount is by far the highest dollar figure ever associated with Guzmán's criminal activities. In 2009, FORBES estimated Guzmán's net worth at $1 billion. But in 2013, at a time when Guzmán's whereabouts were unknown and his likely access to those assets limited, FORBES removed him from the
    billionaires rankings because it decided his assets were too difficult to verify.

    The 33-page indictment against El Chapo, filed in 2016 at the U.S. Eastern District of New York, does not dissect the $14 billion. It simply says that upon conviction, the U.S. will seek forfeiture of any property or contractual rights derived from the continuing criminal enterprise, "including but not limited to at least approximately a sum of money equal to $14 billion in United States currency."

    Asked to explain where the $14 billion figure came from, Peter Carr, DOJ's spokesperson, told me, "At this stage in the case, we’re limited to what is provided in the court documents, so I don’t have any additional information on that at this time."

    Nellin N. McIntosh, a spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney’s office for the Eastern District of New York, also declined to comment.

    David Gaddis, a former chief of enforcement operations at the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), said the $14 billion "is a cumulative figure and based on his drug trafficking enterprise." Gaddis said that between DEA and the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), "many companies associated with it are implicated in the money laundering aspect and will be targeted…."

    In February 2014, OFAC issued a chart identifying 288 companies involved in Guzmán's money laundering operations that had been blacklisted by OFAC between 2007 and 2014. The Guzman-linked companies, mostly located in Mexico, covered a broad range of areas including real estate, gas stations, construction and trucking companies, and furniture stores. Under the so-called "
    Kinpin Act," American companies and individuals are prohibited from doing business with foreign company flagged by OFAC.

    Gaddis said that the hard facts that back up the government's assertion of the $14 billion figure lay in the reporting of DEA files, but they will only be accessible when they are made available to Guzman's defense as discovery material during pre-trial proceedings.

    Bruce M. Bagley, an expert on Mexico's drug cartels at the University of Miami, told me that the $14 billion figure is "too high." "The drug business may earn Mexican drug lords up to $20 billion or so a year. Much of that money goes into operations and protection. El Chapo probably makes well below a billion per year." The government's amount, which Bagley describes as a "cumulative calculation," does not take into account "operating expenses" such as bribes to public officials and profit
    sharing among cartel members.

    However, Bagley said El Chapo is most likely still a billionaire. "…Expenses are running high, his lieutenants are increasingly greedy and disloyal. His children now control his wealth and split it among themselves. Nonetheless, I have no doubt that he is still a billionaire as of 2016," Bagley said. "Guesstimate: $2-$4 billion at most."

    But Alejandro Hope, a security expert in Mexico City, was adamant, calling the $14 billion sum a "fabrication." Hope claims that "no one knows with minimal precision" how much drugs the U.S. consumed last year, much less in the past three decades. Likewise, he said, "no one knows how much of those drugs" passed through the hands of El Chapo and his associates. "What we have is rough estimates," Hope said.

    True freedom and our inherent responsibility:

    I love it but I'd also love to see Mexico feel some economic pain from building the wall too. I can't imagine that we wouldn't recover any costs relating to a wall in savings from services not delivered to illegals, LE funds not having to be allocated and spent, tax receipts from on the books labor that would backfill some of the jobs they now hold, remittances not sent out of the US, school and other local budget expenditure savings and on and on.

    The govt of Mexico has been an active participant in the flow of illegals across our border for decades, they should feel the burn (yep).

    Downside? Still looking for one.


      I don't care who pays for it as long as it gets built. And manned. By snipers and hungry lions.
      "The devil doesn't come dressed in a red cape and pointy horns. He comes as everything you've ever wished for.”
      Tucker Max

      Infirmitate Invitat Violentiam
      Finicky Fat Guy


        How to get Mexico on board?

        Assist them in building their own wall between them and Central America. That border stretches 540 miles and for the US, would make Mexico a huge buffer zone.

        Or this 130-mile suggestion from a year ago... How About a Wall in Mexico That We Pay For?

        By David North, February 24, 2016

        Amidst all the high-decibel and highly generalized discussions of our southern border,
        We're going to do a wall ... Mexico's going to pay for the wall. — The Donald

        A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. — The Pope
        let us make a highly specific, extremely cost-effective, low-decibel (if politically unlikely) proposal about stemming the flow of illegal migrants from Central America.

        The suggestion is based on three quite separate, but mutually supporting sets of facts.

        Fact One. While illegal migration from Mexico remains a major problem, that nation's developing middle-class economy, and the lowering of birth rates over the last two
        decades, means that the illegal migration from that country is plateauing.

        Meanwhile, illegal migration through Mexico from Central America has exploded, largely because while the administration is perfectly willing to expel 17- and-18-year-old Mexican nationals arriving illegally, it will not do the same to those from Central America. And the economic situation in Central America now is grim — it is roughly comparable to what it was in Mexico 30 years ago.

        Fact Two. Our essentially non-Hispanic government has, at least currently, major hesitations about discouraging the migration of Hispanics, but the all-Hispanic government of Mexico has no similar hang-ups about enforcing migration laws against other Hispanic populations. Further, the executive branch there is far less likely to be inhibited by the courts, or by the concept of political
        correctness, than ours is.

        In short, Mexico is exactly the right place to enforce immigration law on non-Mexican law-breakers. This is something
        than can be done, given the right incentives.

        Fact Three. Then there is the matter of geography. Mexico is at its broadest at its 1,900-mile-long northern border with the United States, and that is where we try to enforce our immigration law. Mexico is at its narrowest, as the map shows, near its own southeastern border. The distance from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific, as the crow flies, is 130 or so miles. This is the Isthmus of Tehuantepec; all land-borne illegal migration from Central America flows through this relatively narrow choke-point.

        The Little Railway that Might. Given these three facts would it not make sense to pay Mexico to cut off the
        northward-migration of Central Americans? To some extent that is happening now, but our proposal is to make it more effective and easier to manage and monitor.

        The suggestion is to construct a fence along an existing railroad, now nearly abandoned, built by dreamers a little more than 100 years ago who thought that they could entice ocean-to-ocean traffic away from the about-to-be built Panama Canal and across the Isthmus of Tehuantepec instead. The dream became a nightmare when it became apparent that using the canal was cheaper and faster than unloading freight at the Gulf of Mexico end of the little railway, shipping it by rail, and then re-loading it on ships at the Pacific end of the line. One website calls it the "UnPanama".

        The railway bears the Spanish initials FIT (Ferrocarril del Istmo de Tehuantepec). It runs from sea to sea in a seamless line, though not in a straight line, so it's about 190 miles long. There is a gap in the mountains at this point, which made the rail line easier to build and to maintain. Since the Isthmus is running east and west at this point, the railroad runs roughly north (the Gulf of Mexico) to south (the Pacific).

        Our notion is to build a strong pedestrian fence on the western side of the route, allowing Mexican officials to use the rail line, and roads parallel to it, to patrol it. This would be a much better design than fences at our southern border, because if they are built right at the border, our Border Patrol has no power to seize people approaching it from the other side, as they are in another country.

        There would have to be several places in the proposed fence, maybe a dozen or so, where legitimate crossings could take place, essentially from one part of Mexico to another. These crossings would be staffed by Mexican officials (presumably paid indirectly with U.S. funds). These crossing guards, the construction workers needed to build the fence, and the patrol agents would represent a huge economic shot in the arm for the state of Oaxaca, which is the second-poorest of all Mexican states. (The northern part of the line is in Veracruz state, which is also relatively poor.) The line would also be a few miles to the west of the state of Chiapas, the poorest of the Mexican states.

        What about the Railway? The railway is still operating, but barely, as my
        colleagueKausha Luna learned after a number of phone calls. It is a single track (which suggests it never had much business); it currently carries some freight, but no passengers; and is owned by a government corporation, perhaps like our Amtrak (which is another clue to its lack of prosperity). Further, it was heavily damaged in a 2005 hurricane.

        Up until nine years ago, the right to operate the line was in the hands of an American firm, the Genesee & Wyoming, which is a conglomerate of short lines headquartered in Connecticut. In 2007 the G&W opted out of this arrangement, at least
        party because of the storm. Then the rail line itself, and many other miles of railroad, were sold to a government-related entity at a bargain price.

        The FIT railway, thus, cannot be worth much at the moment.
        Ideally the line would not run trains anymore, leaving the Mexican police free to use the rails to enforce their immigration law, free of complications made by the occasional freight train. Perhaps that could be arranged at a reasonable price.

        The relative ease of the construction of a fence along the FIT railway, as opposed to along the U.S. southern border, is hard to overemphasize. Here is a relatively level land route in which the railway already owns all the real estate needed for the fence. The railway itself gives instant access to the area where the fence is to be built. Construction costs in Mexico are much lower in Mexico than in the States. There would be not be ranches along the border, as there are on some segments of our southern border, where part of the land would be one side of the fence, and part on the other. The railway follows a much straighter line than the Rio Grande, and so forth.

        Above all, the total length would be just one-tenth the length of our border with Mexico. This is not to suggest that we abandon efforts to strengthen our own southern border, but the FIT fence would be an extremely valuable tool in the American enforcement arsenal.

        There would be problems, of course. One of them would be the politics of building a barrier right in the middle of another nation, but with the price of oil lower than it has been in a long time, Mexico might be lured into the deal because of Uncle Sam's money. Such a barrier would also help Mexico control its own illegal immigration problems, all at the cost of another nation.

        Then there would be the problem of controlling corruption among the involved Mexican
        officials, and seeing to it that the new fence was doing what it is supposed to do.

        The Pope would not like the idea, but given a Trump presidency (I shudder at the prospect) perhaps The Donald would see this as an inexpensive and effective way to honor a campaign pledge.

        True freedom and our inherent responsibility:


          Originally posted by Finicky Fat Guy View Post
          I don't care who pays for it as long as it gets built. And manned. By snipers and hungry lions.
          Politically and geographically incorrect, Alligators not lions...
          True freedom and our inherent responsibility:


            Originally posted by Hannco View Post

            Politically and geographically incorrect, Alligators not lions...
            This is America... go big or go home.


              Originally posted by Hannco View Post

              Politically and geographically incorrect, Alligators not lions...
              Lions are faster and more agile.
              "The devil doesn't come dressed in a red cape and pointy horns. He comes as everything you've ever wished for.”
              Tucker Max

              Infirmitate Invitat Violentiam
              Finicky Fat Guy


                Who will pay the 14 billion for the wall?
                Mexico will pay for the wall.. Trump said it 1000 times... why don't people accept it ? Same people said Trump wouldn't be President


                  Originally posted by mossy930spx View Post

                  This is America... go big or go home.
                  China is building whole islands and we're paying for it. Now, THEY know how to go big, especially when it comes to a wall.

                  Fuck the wall. I say we build a 500 yard wide deep-draft shipping canal from Brownsville to San Diego. Enough room for 2-way super-carries and tankers. Collect tolls too.

                  If it works out well, build another from Duluth to Seattle to keep out those goddam Canadians.
                  • To be human is to be armed.
                  • Social media are the "Assault Weapons" of the First Amendment.


                    i suppose if the government stopped giving our money away to other countries we would have plenty left to build the wall . sounds like the " shovel ready " jobs have finally arrived .


                      Who cares. Just build it. It's probably 25 times cheaper for the wall than what we're all paying for in benefits, social services and other unseen costs that illegals cost us. Put the dam wall up.


                        I really don't care who pays for it as long as it gets built. They are also hire a lot more boarder patrol and ICE personnel too. What really needs to be done is to get all those that over stayed their work visa out of the country.
                        Just Another Reason For Me To Retire in Tennessee.


                          Forget a wall. Build a canal.


                            I never expected Mexico to pay for it, though would be nice to foot at least some of the bill.

                            NTL, it's the American governments job to secure the boarder. No one else's. Maybe if they had done that decades ago it wouldn't be so costly now?!
                            I am not armed out of fear of who's in front of me.
                            I am armed out of love of those behind me.

                            Anyone who says money doesn't matter to them is either a FOOL or a LIAR or BOTH!


                              Originally posted by HowardRoark View Post
                              Forget a wall. Build a canal.
                              Forget it, They don't call them wetbacks for nothing. Although a canal would work marvelously against Africans. A Navy SEAL once told me, 'they swin like rocks'.
                              "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction" R.R.