Political talk can result in SERIOUS legal problems

[SimpleMan]

The Declaration of Independence states that ". . . all . . . are endowed . . . with certain unalienable Rights . . . Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness . . .

. . . whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government . . ."

The Founding Fathers subsequently elaborated upon what constituted an unalienable Right when they drafted the Bill of Rights (the first Ten Amendments to the Constitution).

As we all know, the First Amendment states Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . .

The Second Amendment also states that “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

However, some may not be familiar with 18 U.S. Code § 871 – “Threats against President and successors to the Presidency”

18 U.S. Code § 871 makes it a crime to threaten to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States.

Some also may not be familiar with 18 U.S. Code § 2385 – “Advocating Overthrow Of Government”.

18 U.S. Code § 2385 makes it a crime to advocate the destruction of the government of the U.S. by force or violence or the assassination of any government “officer”.

The Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, 18 U.S. Code § 871, and 18 U.S. Code § 2385 are not consistent with each other.

Many of the older members here learned about The Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights in grade school. It was a powerful and invigorating lesson taught in the context of the oppressive King George. However, most legal studies ended there.

Does anyone have an opinion why?

[OH UNCLE PAUL]

[SimpleMan]

Yes, Thomas Jefferson would be deemed a criminal today because of his opinion regarding the "Tree of Liberty”.

"What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted." - Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787

[LiDad]

So why aren't the Black Panthers under arrest for wanting to start their own nation out of Southern states?

(Yea, I know why but still....)

[OH UNCLE PAUL]

So why aren't the Black Panthers under arrest for wanting to start their own nation out of Southern states?

(Yea, I know why but still....)

Well if you look at their plan Florida is kind of fucked. Those poor bastards are going to be behind a border.

But in the overall, is their idea that different from the ideas we have to move to nice red states?

And yes, I say this as someone who has seen that TN is not currently planned for BP infiltration.

[LiDad]

Well if you look at their plan Florida is kind of fucked. Those poor bastards are going to be behind a border.

But in the overall, is their idea that different from the ideas we have to move to nice red states?

And yes, I say this as someone who has seen that TN is not currently planned for BP infiltration.

Moving to an area with people of similar opinion/values/backgrounds/life styles is FAR different than saying to setup your own sovereign nation with in the boarders of an establish nation.

[SimpleMan]

In case anyone was wondering, my post was motivated by the most recent Trump “controversy” (see below).

I think Trump was simply joking. However, even if he wasn’t, I think many Americans would be surprised to learn that his speech was not protected because of laws (not Constitutional Amendments) passed subsequent to the Bill of Rights.



Donald Trump Suggests ‘Second Amendment People’ Could Act Against Hillary Clinton

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us...nton.html?_r=0

By NICK CORASANITI and MAGGIE HABERMANA

WILMINGTON, N.C. — Donald J. Trump on Tuesday appeared to raise the possibility that gun rights supporters could take matters into their own hands if Hillary Clinton is elected president and appoints judges who favor stricter gun control measures.

Repeating his contention that Mrs. Clinton wanted to abolish the right to bear arms, Mr. Trump warned at a rally here that it would be “a horrible day” if Mrs. Clinton were elected and got to appoint a tiebreaking Supreme Court justice.

“If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks,” Mr. Trump said, as the crowd began to boo. He quickly added: “Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”

Oblique as it was, Mr. Trump’s remark quickly elicited a wave of condemnation from Democrats, gun control advocates and others, who accused him of suggesting violence against Mrs. Clinton or liberal jurists. Bernice A. King, daughter of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., called Mr. Trump’s words “distasteful, disturbing, dangerous.”

Mrs. Clinton’s running mate, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, expressed disbelief. “Nobody who is seeking a leadership position, especially the presidency, the leadership of the country, should do anything to countenance violence, and that’s what he was saying,” Mr. Kaine said in Austin, Tex. He called Mr. Trump’s remark “a window into the soul of a person who is just temperamentally not suited to the task.”

And Dan Gross, the president of the Brady Campaign and Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which has endorsed Mrs. Clinton, said Mr. Trump’s statement was “repulsive — literally using the Second Amendment as cover to encourage people to kill someone with whom they disagree.”

“For Trump, violence has become a standard talking point, a common punch line, and even a campaign strategy,” Mr. Gross said.

Mr. Trump and his campaign did not treat his remark as a joke; instead, they insisted he was merely urging gun rights supporters to vote as a bloc against Mrs. Clinton in November. “The Second Amendment people have tremendous power because they are so united,” he told a CBS affiliate in North Carolina late Tuesday.

In an interview with Fox News, Mr. Trump grew adamant. “There can be no other interpretation,” he said, adding, “I mean, give me a break.”

But at his rally earlier in the day, Mr. Trump had actually been discussing what could happen once Mrs. Clinton was president, not before the election.

And even those in Mr. Trump’s audience appeared caught by surprise. Video of the rally showed a man seated just over Mr. Trump’s shoulder go slack-jawed and turn to his companion, apparently in disbelief, when Mr. Trump made the remark.

The uproar over Mr. Trump’s off-the-cuff remark came as his campaign has been contending with a series of public opinion surveys showing him quickly losing ground to Mrs. Clinton, and just a day after his campaign had expressed satisfaction with his delivery of a prepared economic speech in Detroit, calling it evidence of a newfound political discipline.

Mr. Trump’s fellow opponents of gun control stood by him, focusing on his depiction of Mrs. Clinton as a threat to the Second Amendment.

“Donald Trump is absolutely correct,” said Jennifer Baker, a strategist for the National Rifle Association. “If Hillary Clinton is elected, there is nothing we can do to stop her from nominating an anti-gun Supreme Court justice who will vote to overturn the individual right of law-abiding citizens to own a gun in their home for protection.”

The association also began running a new commercial characterizing Mrs. Clinton as “one of the wealthiest women in politics” and calling her a hypocrite for favoring gun restrictions while having been “protected by armed guards for 30 years.” Her gun policies, the ad says, would leave ordinary people “defenseless.”

Veiled references to gun violence have tripped up candidates before. In 2010, Sharron Angle, a Nevada Republican challenging the Senate majority leader at the time, Harry Reid severely damaged her unsuccessful candidacy while discussing the importance of the Second Amendment. “When you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny,” she said, adding: “It’s to defend ourselves. And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.”

Mrs. Clinton herself learned the hard way: In June 2008, shortly before she conceded defeat in her Democratic primary contest with Barack Obama, she defended her perseverance in a way that critics said alluded to the possibility that Mr. Obama could be gunned down. “We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California,” Mrs. Clinton said at the time. She apologized hours later.

Mr. Trump did not repeat his violent insinuation at a later event in Fayetteville, N.C.

But Senator Chris Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut, who has championed gun control since the Sandy Hook mass shooting in his state, called Mr. Trump’s remarks “disgusting and embarrassing and sad.”

“This isn’t play,” Mr. Murphy wrote. “Unstable people with powerful guns and an unhinged hatred for Hillary are listening to you,

And Representative Eric Swalwell, Democrat of California, wrote on Twitter that the Secret Service should investigate Mr. Trump for making a death threat against Mrs. Clinton: “Donald Trump suggested someone kill Sec. Clinton. We must take people at their word.”

A Secret Service spokesman, who refused to identify himself, said that the agency was “aware of the comments” but did not elaborate.

Others seized on Mr. Trump’s remark as an occasion for mockery. Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, wrote on Twitter that Mr. Trump “makes death threats because he’s a pathetic coward who can’t handle the fact that he’s losing to a girl.”

Mr. Trump’s campaign events have grown increasingly vitriolic, with angry chants and jeers directed at Mrs. Clinton. People at his rallies have, with greater frequency, loudly called for violence against Mrs. Clinton — catcalls that Mr. Trump has generally let pass.

And on Saturday, Mr. Trump praised his New Hampshire state co-chairman, State Senator Al Baldasaro, who said recently that Mrs. Clinton deserved to face a firing squad over the F.B.I.’s investigation of her use of a private email server while she was secretary of state.

In Wilmington on Tuesday, chants of “lock her up,” which first gained traction during the Republican National Convention, were loud and frequent before Mr. Trump took the stage. But one speaker, former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani of New York, tried to tamp those down.

“No, no, we’re here to beat her, and keep her out of Washington,” Mr. Giuliani said. He was interrupted by the same chant minutes later.

[LiDad]

I knew you were going there.

[SimpleMan]

I knew you were going there.

I would compliment you for your brilliance but I won't because it would be self-serving.

However, I think it is ok for me to compliment you for your fast posting skills.

[The Blur]

Trump is blowing it every which way. He has a big stupid mouth, & is turning off more & more people that were on the fence. In fact, I know an NRA guy from Florida, that is voting Hillary.

[LiDad]

Trump is blowing it every which way. He has a big stupid mouth, & is turning off more & more people that were on the fence. In fact, I know an NRA guy from Florida, that is voting Hillary.

Trump is being Trump.

It's the MSM and the "safe place" pansies-asses that try to twist everything.

If Trump said "Good Morning" they'd complain it's only good for rich white men like him!
Or if someone sneezed and he says "G*d bless you" they'd say he's pushing religion on them!

Get used to it.

[SimpleMan]

I know an NRA guy from Florida, that is voting Hillary.

[OH UNCLE PAUL]

Trump is blowing it every which way. He has a big stupid mouth, & is turning off more & more people that were on the fence. In fact, I know an NRA guy from Florida, that is voting Hillary.

Well at least you know one person you can blame.

[LiDad]

In 2008 McCaine ran the "moderate" campaign and refused to be critical of Obama. He said that's not what voters wanted to hear. And he was crushed in the election.

In 2012 Romney started off good at the first debate then folded almost immediately, again because it was seen as too confrontational. He too was crushed in the election.

Now in 2016 Trump isn't backing down and so far he's holding his own well.

[snowblind]

LI Dad is right, if you hold back, you get killed. if you come out swinging, the media torches you. You can't win against the Democrat machine. They even have the emails that show that the media and Democrats work in concert and they still don't care.

Trump said the right thing-- Hillary plans on dismantling the 2nd Amendment. He's supposed to put on kid gloves for her? I don't think so. Hillary is going to put antis on the Supreme Court and reverse Heller. In only a few years things like semi auto weapons will be totally illegal, conceal carry illegal, background checks on ammo, etc.