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Rare WW2 M1 Carbine collection - updated, pics

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    #16
    Originally posted by Destro View Post
    Sure,

    known as the "B" code receiver....



    Receiver Type B, variation 6
    Underwood heel stamp with a "B" in a flaming bomb stamp under it. Made by Singer Mfg. Co.
    Quantity/SN range: 2630xxx-2655xxx.
    Known barrel dates: 11-43 and 12-43.
    Proposed qty: 120,000 (may-dec 1943)

    (L. Ruth, War Baby pg 368)

    see picture of heel stamp in lower right of page (picture of page attached below):

    ----------------------

    So yeah, a nice, relatively rare variation of which only 120K were made! (I especially like the household names so Singer, IBM, GM, etc. always have that factor). I also like that it is noted by the B in a flaming bomb, so there's a nice aesthetic (not just a rare serial number) to show for it. A good example of an M1 Carbine variation (subcontracts from other companies are cool as well IMO)

    -----------------
    Here's a recent auction, but it was a re-arsenaled type 3, the value this year will likely be much more in the right auction for a type 1 version and even this price was low (even auction prices from 5 years ago have doubled with some types)..

    [/ATTACH]
    EXCELLENT info - THANKS.

    After my buddy told me what I had, I started to look it up and read in a couple of places that Singer only made 5000 Carbine receivers for Underwood. But then I saw some auctions where they didn't go much higher than a couple of grand, and it didn't make sense. 120k receivers makes more sense.

    Again, thanks.

    "The Open Carry guy is my decoy."

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Dan 0351 View Post

      EXCELLENT info - THANKS.

      After my buddy told me what I had, I started to look it up and read in a couple of places that Singer only made 5000 Carbine receivers for Underwood. But then I saw some auctions where they didn't go much higher than a couple of grand, and it didn't make sense. 120k receivers makes more sense.

      Again, thanks.
      No problem. Glad to help. Hey, 120K out of 5.5 million ain't bad. (probably a lot less remaining in any decent condition, who knows how many never made it back or are stuck in Korean, Vietnam, etc.?)

      Comment


        #18
        More great information. Still looking for a stock for my IBM.

        Comment


        • Destro
          Destro commented
          Editing a comment
          I’ll keep an eye out when I browse the CMP forums for sale. I was looking for a particular one for a while, they pop up but it seems fewer and farther between these days.

        #19
        Another excellent thread Destro. Your passion for these m1's clearly presents itself, and the info is extremely interesting. Thank you for posting it all, and the pictures are amazing as well(as usual).

        Comment


          #20
          Irwin-Pedersen USGI Original "Type 1" WW2 M1 Carbine

          The following is a handsome example of an original Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine, all correct, with an actual Irwin-Pedersen heel stamp (not just a Saginaw S'G' IP serial number). Underwood 11-42 barrel, correct S'G' Grand Rapids RSG stock, mix of correct IP and S'G" parts. Great, collectible example.

          Only approximately 50,000 of these may have ever been issued,
          making it the rarest production carbine during the war. How many actually survived in "type 1" condition? Likely, less than half (and realistically half of that in any collectible condition). Most that come up in auction have the type 3 bayonet lug and have been re-arsenaled for Korea, etc.



          A brief story of Irwin-Pedersen (IP) and the factors that made it the only rejected war-time, government contractor.

          -- John D. Pedersen, one of America's most famous gun designers, teamed up with the Robert Irwin Furniture company.

          --The Irwin-Pedersen Amrs Co, Grand Rapids, MI was incorporated in March, 1942. and was awarded an Ordnance contract for a (later revised) 112,500 carbines, 123,772 slings, and 168,780 oilers.

          --Egos and corporate-style waste ran amok, and the furniture makers had trouble producing carbines that met the Ordnance standard, while Pedersen and his circle had bloated salaries.

          --IP had the costliest contract to the government, and speculation was that the government was trying to get out of it's contract. There are factory manager notes of him having snuck in already approved parts and receivers by other contractors, only to be rejected.

          -- The government pulled the contract in 1943 and had Saginaw create a separate plant in Grand Rapids to take over IP's serial numbers and finish the contract. One of the inspectors from Saginaw who came to the IP factory during the transition said he never saw so many people doing nothing and getting paid.

          These carbines are heel stamped Saginaw S'G' (also called "prime"). They built off any receivers and parts from IP they could use and then later heel stamped "Saginaw S'G'". They are a mix of IP parts then later S'G' parts as they ran out of the IP parts.


          In terms of "collectibility" these are a cherry on top for any complete carbine collection, and given the recent prices the sky is the limit on excellent, original, type 1 examples. They have become great investment pieces in the last decade. They used to fetch 5 grand all day, in the last few years, who knows?
          ---


          This heel stamp right here is the "money shot" for all carbine collectors...Got that Rick Flair drip Woooooooo!


          IP_1.jpg


          IP_2.jpg

          Very correct faded "S'G"" stamp, RSG in the sling well (Rock-ola made stocks for IP)

          IP_3.jpg

          Correct Underwood barrel

          IP_4.jpg

          IP safety, IP coded sling swivel, etc.


          IP_5.jpg



          IP_6.jpg

          Also have an accompanying Saginaw S'G' with an IP serial number in the collection....

          Untitled-1.jpg

          Comment


            #21
            Inland first month Type 1 "Four Digital SN"
            ..one of the first 5,000 carbines to be issued!


            In general carbine parlance, Inlands are a "dime a dozen". That's because they made the most --over 2.4 million, compared to rare contractors (Rock-ola: 228,500 Saginaw S'G': 223,620). So getting a rarer variation or a low serial number --all correct, in decent condition--is often very desirable. I recently came across a post on the CMP boards about someone who found a 25,000 range. Nice, ohhh,Wow, here is one --all correct, in very good condition--under 5000.

            This would have been one of the first 5,000 USGI carbines of the 6+ Million that rolled out in May 1942.

            Inland_4digit_8.jpg

            Inland_4digit_1.jpg

            General Motors Inland Division 5-42
            Inland_4digit_2.jpg

            Inland_4digit_4.jpg
            One of the sought-after early I-cut oiler slots in the stock. As you see early Inlands did not have the crossed canons and maker proof marks stamped on the stock as is typically seen in many M1 carbines. The IO (Inland) was instead stamped in the sling recess (above).
            Inland_4digit_6.jpg


            Early push button checkered safety and flip sights.
            Inland_4digit_5.jpg

            Inland_4digit_7.jpg






            Last edited by Destro; 01-11-2021, 09:49 PM.

            Comment


              #22
              Absolutely gorgeous!
              Life Member: ASA, GOA, NRA

              Comment


                #23
                1943 USGI Winchester "Spring Tube" M1 Carbine


                First block production run WW2 Winchester (early '43) with the early spring tube receiver design. A "type 1" as issued, original WW2 US M1 Carbine.
                winchester_springtube_1.jpg
                The magazine catch is the early type "A". and coded with the "W". Butt-plate is a "Winchester". Inside parts are all coded with the "Winchester" "W". Including the early Winchester coded "Dogleg" Hammer and the "Spring Tube". Early waffled safety. The muzzle erosion gauge measures a "1". The barrel is a "Winchester" and has the "W" 3 inches below the muzzle and the trade mark is seven inches below the muzzle. Inside barrel is clean and clear and there is no corrosion. The stock is the early type 2 (High-wood and oval-cut) and is in excellent condition. It is coded on the right side with the crossed cannons beside and "W.R.A. over the G.H.D."and the small "w" in the sling-well. Overall, a very rare and collectible WW2 M1 Carbine.



                A spring tube is a carbine with a tube over the slide spring. Instead of the spring fitting into a recessed hole in the receiver, the tube fits over the spring and sits in a retaining hole at the back of the receiver. Winchester and Rock-ola used the spring tube set up till mid 1943, and Quality Hardware through out production.

                It is one of the nuanced historic design variations of the M1 Carbine, that evolved and upgraded during war-time production.
                2019J10.jpg

                2019J1.jpg

                The serial number places it in the first block of Winchester production (which was from Sept. 42- Feb. 44) by most records at Early 1943. An interesting historic variation of a well-know name wartime M1 carbine.

                winchester_springtube_4.jpg

                winchester_springtube_2.jpg
                winchester_springtube_3.jpg
                winchester_springtube_7.jpg
                winchester_springtube_6.jpg


                winchester_springtube_5.jpg

                winchester_springtube_8.jpg

                Comment


                  #24
                  Amazing piece of history.

                  Comment


                    #25
                    Originally posted by Destro View Post
                    1943 USGI Winchester "Spring Tube" M1 Carbine


                    First block production run WW2 Winchester (early '43) with the early spring tube receiver design. A "type 1" as issued, original WW2 US M1 Carbine.
                    winchester_springtube_1.jpg
                    The magazine catch is the early type "A". and coded with the "W". Butt-plate is a "Winchester". Inside parts are all coded with the "Winchester" "W". Including the early Winchester coded "Dogleg" Hammer and the "Spring Tube". Early waffled safety. The muzzle erosion gauge measures a "1". The barrel is a "Winchester" and has the "W" 3 inches below the muzzle and the trade mark is seven inches below the muzzle. Inside barrel is clean and clear and there is no corrosion. The stock is the early type 2 (High-wood and oval-cut) and is in excellent condition. It is coded on the right side with the crossed cannons beside and "W.R.A. over the G.H.D."and the small "w" in the sling-well. Overall, a very rare and collectible WW2 M1 Carbine.



                    A spring tube is a carbine with a tube over the slide spring. Instead of the spring fitting into a recessed hole in the receiver, the tube fits over the spring and sits in a retaining hole at the back of the receiver. Winchester and Rock-ola used the spring tube set up till mid 1943, and Quality Hardware through out production.

                    It is one of the nuanced historic design variations of the M1 Carbine, that evolved and upgraded during war-time production.
                    2019J10.jpg

                    2019J1.jpg

                    The serial number places it in the first block of Winchester production (which was from Sept. 42- Feb. 44) by most records at Early 1943. An interesting historic variation of a well-know name wartime M1 carbine.

                    winchester_springtube_4.jpg

                    winchester_springtube_2.jpg
                    winchester_springtube_3.jpg
                    winchester_springtube_7.jpg
                    winchester_springtube_6.jpg


                    winchester_springtube_5.jpg

                    winchester_springtube_8.jpg
                    drooling...

                    Comment


                      #26
                      This thread is killing me!
                      "The devil doesn't come dressed in a red cape and pointy horns. He comes as everything you've ever wished for.”
                      Tucker Max

                      Infirmitate Invitat Violentiam
                      Finicky Fat Guy

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