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delta level defence ar15 please explain to me why this gun is legal in NYS?

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    #46
    Bird cage should put it real close, plenty of room in that budget to get a longer muzzle device. Pin and weld is a quick easy job that doesnt require much skill if you already have a welder handy.

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      #47
      That muzzle device is .5" too short, good call.

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        #48
        Originally posted by Grifhunter View Post
        A year and a half ago, I'd probably would have said this technically violates nothing. However, the NY appellate courts in this state have recently exhibited the utmost dishonesty and deviousness in condoning ANY law that involves prohibiting a weapon. The recent knife decisions and the NYC pistol transportation cases were laughing stocks of liberal judicial deference to the state. Read the knife decision. They flat out don't care what the statute says, What matters to these effete judges is if it scares them. And this gun will scare them.
        Agreed.

        Meets the letter of the law? 100%; but that seems to no longer matter in NYS for any meaningful period. These people overlook everything from words with precise meaning to technical function however it will suit them.

        Best example of something like this is the Mare's Leg. It's a SBR in NY (not saying I agree with that assessment, just the way it is). If they will say that is a functional stock, what's to make them say this isn't either as well? (Yes, I'm well aware it's not an actual stock, but NY will likely say it can/will be used as such).

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          #49

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            #50
            I'd love to know who "NYS" is. Last i checked law enforcement in NYS does not have the power to make these determinations, that falls to the judiciary.

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              #51
              Originally posted by mattyj513 View Post

              I'd love to know who "NYS" is. Last i checked law enforcement in NYS does not have the power to make these determinations, that falls to the judiciary.
              Didn’t we learn about this with the whole debacle with dsi and troop L? Lol.

              Plus, the guns come with a letter from the ATF stating these guns aren’t sbrs.

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                #52
                Originally posted by Mega2899 View Post

                Didn’t we learn about this with the whole debacle with dsi and troop L? Lol.

                Plus, the guns come with a letter from the ATF stating these guns aren’t sbrs.
                Interesting info in that little Timpano gem. I didn't' know the gun dealers had meetings with the PLS. Any chance such a meeting can be arranged with us gunowners as a group?
                Ballistic: "Grif... You are my legal eagle spirit animal...."

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by Grifhunter View Post

                  Interesting info in that little Timpano gem. I didn't' know the gun dealers had meetings with the PLS. Any chance such a meeting can be arranged with us gunowners as a group?
                  Nothing but bad news from him this whole day. 🤦*♂️

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by Mega2899 View Post

                    Didn’t we learn about this with the whole debacle with dsi and troop L? Lol.

                    Plus, the guns come with a letter from the ATF stating these guns aren’t sbrs.
                    I don't think there is any confusion as to their legality federally. The issue is when someone without the proper authority arbitrarily decides something like this is not legal, cites no proof of such in state law, but spreads the word amongst law enforcement (to what degree who knows) that these are illegal. This causes the average gun enthusiast to not do something that is legal, due to the fear of losing everything in the potential legal battle to clear his name and maintain his freedom. I am in no way shape or form comparing any law enforcement to terrorists, i am a big supporter of LEOs, but this situation becomes the 2A equivalent of "letting the terrorists win".

                    I'm currently taking the Certified Firearm Specialist course over at Freeport, a ton of great info, and one of the great lessons it is driving home when determining classification/legality is not to prove what it is, but what it is not. Under the GCA this is not a pistol, rifle, shotgun, likewise under the NFA it is not an sbr, sbs, or aow, or. It is an other, under the GCA, requiring no registration, no tax stamp, no addition to a ny permit, and actually falling outside of the unsafe act, as therein are no restrictions specific to others.

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                      #55
                      Question for almost everyone posting on this thread about getting in trouble, getting arrested etc etc... if you're at a point where you are being arrested for possessing a questionable firearm, isn't there usually an underlying reason for the arrest? E.g. Walking around in broad daylight waving the firearm, getting pulled over for speeding and having the firearm in plain sight on the back seat, having your home searched with a legal search warrant due to suspected drug dealing, etc etc, etc.... if you buy this firearm thinking It is NYS legal and it turns out it isn't, doesn't the safe act contain a clause that gives you a certain time period to register?

                      If you get arrested for being an ass$&@# and they tack on the firearm, then oh well... prove them wrong. I get that. I don't have experience with this being a goodytwo shoes and all, so educate me.

                      I buy it under the pretense that it's legal. I find out it's not legal. No intent to commit a crime. I get called out by whoever. Either I make it legal, I sell it out of state, or I register it. The law is written as such.

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                        #56
                        Originally posted by Llaara View Post
                        Question for almost everyone posting on this thread about getting in trouble, getting arrested etc etc... if you're at a point where you are being arrested for possessing a questionable firearm, isn't there usually an underlying reason for the arrest? E.g. Walking around in broad daylight waving the firearm, getting pulled over for speeding and having the firearm in plain sight on the back seat, having your home searched with a legal search warrant due to suspected drug dealing, etc etc, etc.... if you buy this firearm thinking It is NYS legal and it turns out it isn't, doesn't the safe act contain a clause that gives you a certain time period to register?

                        If you get arrested for being an ass$&@# and they tack on the firearm, then oh well... prove them wrong. I get that. I don't have experience with this being a goodytwo shoes and all, so educate me.

                        I buy it under the pretense that it's legal. I find out it's not legal. No intent to commit a crime. I get called out by whoever. Either I make it legal, I sell it out of state, or I register it. The law is written as such.
                        There is no clause "giving you a certain time to register". The only person who will get saved under that provision is someone who comes to possess an AW innocently, such as the gun being left behind by a deceased parent or moving into the state with a rifle unaware of the presence or illegality of the weapon. If you knowingly acquire an evil gun post SAFE, intentionally buy it or build it, you won't be saved, because you knowingly acquired it.

                        True that most times the people who have been arrested and received SAFE act criminal charges were caught doing something else. But there are dozens of ways to have your illegal AW get into the eyes of law enforcement, including a fire in the home, domestic disturbance, you get ratted out by a vindictive ex or trades person working in the house, a member of the household stupidly allows a warrentless police search, you are shooting the gun at the range and some sort of accident occurs, etc.
                        Ballistic: "Grif... You are my legal eagle spirit animal...."

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                          #57

                          A: Failure to register an assault weapon by the deadline is punishable as a class A misdemeanor and forfeiture of the weapon. If failure to register is deemed to be unintentional, a 30-day amnesty period will be extended for purposes of registering the weapon.


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                            #58
                            So...the state "officially" tells a Long Island Police Pistol License unit that a firearm that doesn't meet the NY State definition of a handgun or rifle is "regarded" by the state to be a Short-Barreled Rifle (SBR). 'Officially regarded as......' Hmmm.

                            New York, "The Magical State": Where 'they' can wave a magic wand and make legal spring-assisted knives into illegal switchblades, and 'other' firearms into SBR's - despite what's actually written in the laws.

                            I'd rather them just change the law to add spring-assist knives and 'other' firearms into the Penal Law than just make stuff up. The way they're doing it kills their credibility, creates more people willing to go against these arbitrary and capricious 'rules', and is only adding to the confusion and frustration of gun/knife owners (I know, many want that).

                            These 'other' guns seem not to fit any of the NY State definitions of a Firearm, Rifle or Assault Rifle.

                            NY State Penal Law 265 Definitions

                            3. "Firearm" means
                            (a) any pistol or revolver; or
                            (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or
                            (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or
                            (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or
                            (e) an assault weapon.


                            11. "Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.


                            The way I'm reading it - and please correct me if I'm wrong, this firearm can NOT be a "rifle" (short-barreled or otherwise) because it was not "designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder..."

                            This is NY State Law. For the 'state' to be telling a county pistol license guy that this is a rifle is......confusing, at best.

                            The problem:

                            If a person with no criminal record can be arrested, convicted and the conviction upheld on two appeals - for having a gravity knife but charged with a switchblade.....

                            (4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.)

                            .....what would happen if you were arrested with an 'other' that ALSO doesn't meet the Penal Law definition of an illegal item?

                            A couple of questions for FFL's: Do the county pistol license sections usually get involved with non-handgun areas of firearms? i.e. Are they also your point-of-contact for longarm or 'other' guns questions/situations?
                            Last edited by Dan 0351; 10-31-2018, 11:22 AM.
                            No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

                            - U.S. Marines

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by Llaara View Post
                              A: Failure to register an assault weapon by the deadline is punishable as a class A misdemeanor and forfeiture of the weapon. If failure to register is deemed to be unintentional, a 30-day amnesty period will be extended for purposes of registering the weapon.

                              This section requires A) that the AW was possessed pre-SAFE act. (which the weapon that is the subject of this thread couldn't possibly be), and B) that the gun was not registered because of some reasonable excuse. Not knowing about the SAFE act will not count (ignorance of the law is no defense). Not knowing that there is an unregistered gun in the home would be, say if granddad died and the AW is found later.
                              Vagueness about what is or is not an evil feature will not get you out of trouble as the upstate guy with the epoxied mag button that he bought at retail at a local FFL found out to the cost of a felony conviction.

                              Acquiring an AW after the registration deadline is a FELONY by the way.
                              Ballistic: "Grif... You are my legal eagle spirit animal...."

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                                #60
                                Nys doesn't care what atf says.

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