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delta level defence ar15 please explain to me why this gun is legal in NYS?

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    Originally posted by mattyj513 View Post
    By federal and state law this is legal. As previously stated, an overzealous LEO or DA can still bankrupt you and make you prove your innocence in spite of this. Like a shit ton of other firearm related stuff in NY, nobody knows until it goes to court. If you decide to buy or build one, best to know all aspects of the law regarding it, and maybe keep a copy of pertinent atf determinations/ny penal code handy. Don't count on that sparing you.

    Machria, don't take this the wrong way, but insulting guys on here won't end well for you, especially when some members have more fully loaded safes than you have firearms. This is a great community, and after 7 pages deep, respected members of this community giving you advice to prevent you having to do a perp walk should not be taken lightly. I can confidently say, this gun is legal by atf standards, legal by current nys penal code, but not worth the trouble. I am eagerly waiting the ncpl/nysp reasoning why this is not legal, and will be first in line to call and prove them wrong, but dont feel like becoming a prohibited person between now and then.

    ​​​​​
    Your joking right?? First of all, I have never insulted anyone on here, PERIOD. Have I joked and prodded a bit, sure. Partly because that's why we are here, to have some fun, right? But that brings me to 2nd of all, the REASON I am doing that is to do exactly what you are stating I should be doing, and that is listening to folks that may or MAY NOT know more about this than I do. If I just laid down and said ok, "JohnnyBGoodKillerGunDude251" says it's illegal on the internet, so I guess it is illegal, I would be living in a cave right now. Instead, I'm purposely instigating a conversation about the subject, to gain more insight and facts.

    3rd, DON'T every assume you know who somebody is or what they may or may not have. Assuming some here may have more loaded safes than I have firearms is quite funny actually, I'll just leave it at that.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Machria View Post

      Your joking right?? First of all, I have never insulted anyone on here, PERIOD. Have I joked and prodded a bit, sure. Partly because that's why we are here, to have some fun, right? But that brings me to 2nd of all, the REASON I am doing that is to do exactly what you are stating I should be doing, and that is listening to folks that may or MAY NOT know more about this than I do. If I just laid down and said ok, "JohnnyBGoodKillerGunDude251" says it's illegal on the internet, so I guess it is illegal, I would be living in a cave right now. Instead, I'm purposely instigating a conversation about the subject, to gain more insight and facts.

      3rd, DON'T every assume you know who somebody is or what they may or may not have. Assuming some here may have more loaded safes than I have firearms is quite funny actually, I'll just leave it at that.
      I don't think anyone said it was illegal. Quite the contrary. All we have is a post showing what appears to be an Instagram message from the commanding officer of NCPD Pistol Licensing saying that the NY State Police in Albany 'officially regard' that gun to be a short barreled rifle. It's inferred that NCPD agrees, but their actual position on it isn't stated. But I'm not sure there's actually any laws in the state Penal Law against it - but I certainly may be mistaken. There's also no laws in the state Penal Law against spring-assisted knives - but there are convictions for it. So despite the probability that 'other' guns are not specifically made illegal, many feel that there's a pretty good chance of getting arrested and convicted with one, especially when a local police CO and the State Police appear to say it's illegal. When brought to their attention, there may be something in the state law that supports them being illegal that they can direct us to. Or, they can change their 'official' consideration of the legality of these 'others'. Or, they can sit on their hands while Cuomo just adds spring-assist knives, 'other' guns, BB guns and spit ball straws to the SAFE Act II.

      In any event, I'm not too sure how you will "fight" this. Can you enlighten us? Will you buy/build one and take it to the State Police barracks and show them? Will you bring it to public ranges and shoot it? Will you put it in your safe and leave it there? Tell me, how will you "fight" this?

      Next tell me what you have to lose. Do you have a mortgage and a family that counts on you to keep a roof over their heads? If you go to prison, can they pay the bills without you? Or, are you single, live in a cheap apartment and drive a 1992 Civic? Idealistically these things shouldn't matter - but realistically, they're sometimes all that matter.
      No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

      - U.S. Marines

      Comment


        Go buy one already, they ARE LEGAL, period. You can talk conjecture of what "could happen" or of what some PO "might think", or anything else... BUT THE SIMPLE FACT IS, it is legal, and that is all that matters. They are in, and flying off the shelves by way ….. so barn doors were left open, and the horses are gone!

        Comment


          Originally posted by Machria View Post
          Go buy one already, they ARE LEGAL, period. You can talk conjecture of what "could happen" or of what some PO "might think", or anything else... BUT THE SIMPLE FACT IS, it is legal, and that is all that matters. They are in, and flying off the shelves by way ….. so barn doors were left open, and the horses are gone!
          There you have it Dan 0351, you have an expert legal authority giving you am opinion that will stand up in a New York court full of judges elected by the same people that gave us Cuomo, DeBlasio, and Occasional-Cortex.
          "The devil doesn't come dressed in a red cape and pointy horns. He comes as everything you've ever wished for.”
          Tucker Max

          Infirmitate Invitat Violentiam
          Finicky Fat Guy

          Comment


            Originally posted by Finicky Fat Guy View Post

            There you have it Dan 0351, you have an expert legal authority giving you am opinion that will stand up in a New York court full of judges elected by the same people that gave us Cuomo, DeBlasio, and Occasional-Cortex.
            Hopefully your referring to the ATF!

            Comment


              Originally posted by Machria View Post
              Go buy one already, they ARE LEGAL, period. You can talk conjecture of what "could happen" or of what some PO "might think", or anything else... BUT THE SIMPLE FACT IS, it is legal, and that is all that matters. They are in, and flying off the shelves by way ….. so barn doors were left open, and the horses are gone!
              Are you a sales rep for the mfg? Honest question.

              Also Dan 0351 I didn't realize that NCPD contacted whoever they contacted by instagram message? Whatever happened to registered letters, return recipt, yadda yadda yadda?
              High quality building supplies since 1948! Friendly FFL transfers of long guns, receivers, and ammunition. Feel free to call us at 516 741 4466

              Comment


                Originally posted by Volkosupply View Post

                Are you a sales rep for the mfg? Honest question.

                Also Dan 0351 I didn't realize that NCPD contacted whoever they contacted by instagram message? Whatever happened to registered letters, return recipt, yadda yadda yadda?
                Some (not me, don't shoot [pun intended] the messenger) think that Instagram message is fake. But to your question, I wondered the same thing.

                Am I a rep, no, but I think I should be!!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Machria View Post
                  Go buy one already, they ARE LEGAL, period. You can talk conjecture of what "could happen" or of what some PO "might think", or anything else... BUT THE SIMPLE FACT IS, it is legal, and that is all that matters. They are in, and flying off the shelves by way ….. so barn doors were left open, and the horses are gone!
                  OK.
                  No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

                  - U.S. Marines

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Volkosupply View Post

                    Also Dan 0351 I didn't realize that NCPD contacted whoever they contacted by instagram message? Whatever happened to registered letters, return recipt, yadda yadda yadda?
                    Mega2899 posted it, post # 49. That was the first and only time I heard of it. I was hoping an FFL here could clear it up/confirm it.

                    I am not aware that the State Police can or does tell a county police how to interpret a law. The penal law is, for the most part, pretty understandable (except parts of the SAFE Act, of course) and I wouldn't think that a county would need clarification from the state on this. The local police often consult with the county DA, but I don't know exactly what the Instagram message means to the NCPD.





                    No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

                    - U.S. Marines

                    Comment


                      I don't know what to tell you. Calling guys wimps for not risking, well, everything, to buy a gun just because you feel it is legal and bears no risk just doesn't make any sense. I make no assumptions about you, but speak on what I know about my own level of knowledge and expertise, and that of other members on here. I don't mean any insult as regards more loaded safes than firearms, but again know that there are highly knowledgeable members here that could single handedly put our local gun shows to shame with their own personal collection. Simple fact.

                      My primary goal here is not to have fun, it is to learn, teach, and further the development and security of our rights and pastimes among a community of my friends a neighbors. Pushing guys to do something that like it or not has a good chance of stripping them of their freedom and livelihoods does nothing to further our rights or community. Your repeated use of the atf as being what will save someone on this shows your ignorance on the issue. I do not say that to insult you, it is basic government 101 that states and local jurisdictions can and do create and enforce stricter laws and policies than the federal government as a whole, nys and firearm laws are the epitome of a glaring example of this. If you choose to ignore this simple fact, and opt to purchase one of these, I wish you well in that choice. But while a statement from a local licensing agency is floating around stating the state says these are no good, i don't recommend you or anyone else take risk, and feel obligated to make sure the members here are aware of that risk. Hopefully a local shop follows up on the county's/states reasoning shortly, and we can take it from there. As said I'll be the first guy on the phone with NYSP disputing any reasoning that does not stand up to current law, and should it be resolved, ill be the first guy on here giving pointers on how to build these safely and within the law. Not sure what else to say, other than good luck if you opt to roll the dice at this point.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mattyj513 View Post
                        Pushing guys to do something that like it or not has a good chance of stripping them of their freedom and livelihoods does nothing to further our rights or community.
                        Nobody is "pushing guys" to do anything, except YOU! I'm just stating the facts, your stating conjecture, and ALOT of it.

                        The highlighted part is the point I do NOT like at all, and disagree with 1000%. Stating there is a "good chance" is absolute non-sense!! You have absolutely no idea of any chance whatsoever of anything happening with this, and pretending to think you do does a HUGE dis-service to the rest of the members reading this. Sorry, I have to call you out on this, as this actually pisses me off. To me, this sounds like a "scare tactic", do you work for the DA? Pistol lic office? Sure sounds like it. Sounds like somebody trying to make a point publicly to make the case later on that it was already stated.... See my point?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Machria View Post

                          Nobody is "pushing guys" to do anything, except YOU! I'm just stating the facts, your stating conjecture, and ALOT of it.

                          The highlighted part is the point I do NOT like at all, and disagree with 1000%. Stating there is a "good chance" is absolute non-sense!! You have absolutely no idea of any chance whatsoever of anything happening with this, and pretending to think you do does a HUGE dis-service to the rest of the members reading this. Sorry, I have to call you out on this, as this actually pisses me off. To me, this sounds like a "scare tactic", do you work for the DA? Pistol lic office? Sure sounds like it. Sounds like somebody trying to make a point publicly to make the case later on that it was already stated.... See my point?
                          Let me ask you something:

                          Knowing now that a person was arrested for a legal spring-assisted knife in NY. He was convicted, appealed, conviction overwhelmingly upheld, appealed again and the conviction was again overwhelmingly upheld......would you go into NYC with a spring-assist knife?
                          No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

                          - U.S. Marines

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Dan 0351 View Post

                            Let me ask you something:

                            Knowing now that a person was arrested for a legal spring-assisted knife in NY. He was convicted, appealed, conviction overwhelmingly upheld, appealed again and the conviction was again overwhelmingly upheld......would you go into NYC with a spring-assist knife?
                            First, I don't know what a spring assisted knife is, I'm not a knife collector as I am firearms. Second, I know nothing about the case your referring to. Third, if the law says whatever it is, is legal, yes I would. And yes, I would win in court.

                            I follow the LAWS. And so will the courts, period.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Machria View Post

                              Nobody is "pushing guys" to do anything, except YOU! I'm just stating the facts, your stating conjecture, and ALOT of it.

                              The highlighted part is the point I do NOT like at all, and disagree with 1000%. Stating there is a "good chance" is absolute non-sense!! You have absolutely no idea of any chance whatsoever of anything happening with this, and pretending to think you do does a HUGE dis-service to the rest of the members reading this. Sorry, I have to call you out on this, as this actually pisses me off. To me, this sounds like a "scare tactic", do you work for the DA? Pistol lic office? Sure sounds like it. Sounds like somebody trying to make a point publicly to make the case later on that it was already stated.... See my point?
                              Just a quick recap on this thread. In 9 of my posts i have given facts and recommendations to better inform the members here on the legality of these. A summarized example of one of these facts, is that these are legal per federal regulations and nys penal code, but that does not mean you will not have to prove your innocence in the event a law enforcement entity feels they are not legal. Everything in that statement is a fact. You can not dispute any of it, nor can anyone else. Numerous members have listed examples of the results of comparable scenarios. I have at no time pushed anyone to do anything, I have listed law, indisputable facts, and my personal recommendations based on such. My text you highlighted and strongly disagree with, is based on fact, recent and even currently ongoing examples of such cases, and is an advisement based on my experience and training to prevent members from being negatively impacted.

                              You on the other hand, have had 2 post just telling people to go out and buy these, 8 posts where you state "facts" that are either incomplete or entirely false, such as (summarized) the atf said these are good to go, so they are good (incomplete), or a nys court would throw out the case because of the atf (entirely false). You have had 3 posts insulting people (no snowflakes here, just calling em by the numbers).

                              There is an old saying, if everyone else is an asshole, maybe you are the asshole. So far we have had FFLs, Law Enforcement, Attorneys, gunsmiths, and certified firearm specialists on one side, and then you on the other. I dont think you are an asshole, i think you are wholeheartedly well intentioned, strong of conviction, but unfortunately under informed. I dont know what else to say. We have beaten this horse for way too long.
                              ​​​​
                              Last edited by mattyj513; 11-09-2018, 06:02 PM.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Machria View Post

                                First, I don't know what a spring assisted knife is, I'm not a knife collector as I am firearms. Second, I know nothing about the case your referring to. Third, if the law says whatever it is, is legal, yes I would. And yes, I would win in court.

                                I follow the LAWS. And so will the courts, period.
                                Never mind, you seem to know what you're talking about.
                                No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy

                                - U.S. Marines

                                Comment

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