Shotgun legal questions

[mattyj513]

Hey members, not sure if everyone recalls, but there was a thread not too long ago about the non nfa 14 inch shotgun (thread here https://www.longislandgunclub.com/fo...sylum-weaponry).

I have been doing some casual research on these. I am in the market for another pump, and was just stiffed on a traditional one on gunbroker; that revived my interest in this and I am now moving it up on my agenda. Black Aces and 802 Traders, 2 companies that produce variants of these, essentially stated when I contacted them that they are not for sale in NY, just because they havent bothered with our commie marketplace. I contacted the NYSP police and was informed that they see no reason, after reviewing the details I provuded, atf letters, and nys penal law, that these would be illegal here. This leaves me with a few questions, hopefully there are some who can provide answers.

First, in order for a shotgun to be legally modified in this fashion, it has to begin its life as a pistol grip only shotgun. It must be transferred on a 4473 as "other". For our FFLs on here, is that standard procedure for pistol grip shotguns, or would it need to be specified by the buyer during the transfer?

Second, obviously my discussions with NYSP do not carry the weight of law, and much like compliance products and such, I assume that there is no office or person in the state of ny who would be able to provide the state level equivalent of an atf determination letter. I do remember people stating it would have to be put on a pistol permit (even though by federal and nys definition it is not a pistol). I was wondering if anyone has followed that path, or if anyone has any suggestions on who else to contact. I may give NCPL and Murtha and Murtha a buzz, see if they can weigh in as well.

Thanks in advance.

[Barnslayer]

Even if by some remote chance you get an okay on this.... Would you want to fire it? Will your disability insurance cover you?

[DeathDealer]

Even if by some remote chance you get an okay on this.... Would you want to fire it? Will your disability insurance cover you?

Some things are in "must have it"category.

[NRATC53]

Hey members, not sure if everyone recalls, but there was a thread not too long ago about the non nfa 14 inch shotgun (thread here https://www.longislandgunclub.com/fo...sylum-weaponry).

I have been doing some casual research on these. I am in the market for another pump, and was just stiffed on a traditional one on gunbroker; that revived my interest in this and I am now moving it up on my agenda. Black Aces and 802 Traders, 2 companies that produce variants of these, essentially stated when I contacted them that they are not for sale in NY, just because they havent bothered with our commie marketplace. I contacted the NYSP police and was informed that they see no reason, after reviewing the details I provuded, atf letters, and nys penal law, that these would be illegal here. This leaves me with a few questions, hopefully there are some who can provide answers.

First, in order for a shotgun to be legally modified in this fashion, it has to begin its life as a pistol grip only shotgun. It must be transferred on a 4473 as "other". For our FFLs on here, is that standard procedure for pistol grip shotguns, or would it need to be specified by the buyer during the transfer?

Second, obviously my discussions with NYSP do not carry the weight of law, and much like compliance products and such, I assume that there is no office or person in the state of ny who would be able to provide the state level equivalent of an atf determination letter. I do remember people stating it would have to be put on a pistol permit (even though by federal and nys definition it is not a pistol). I was wondering if anyone has followed that path, or if anyone has any suggestions on who else to contact. I may give NCPL and Murtha and Murtha a buzz, see if they can weigh in as well.

Thanks in advance.

There are 2 guys I know who have them on their pistol licenses

[LI Ammo]

The question: First, in order for a shotgun to be legally modified in this fashion, it has to begin its life as a pistol grip only shotgun. It must be transferred on a 4473 as "other". For our FFLs on here, is that standard procedure for pistol grip shotguns, or would it need to be specified by the buyer during the transfer?

The Answer: Yes, a shotgun that is pistol grip only from the factory, gets checked in to the receiving dealer book as 'other firearm' and is noted on the NICS the same way. If the shotgun comes with the standard shoulder stock assembled and a pistol grip loose in the box, it is a shotgun from day one.

HOWEVER, in the case of this shotgun/pistol/whatever, I have no special knowledge and I would suggest that you find out from Suffolk or Nassau before you buy it to see if they'd put it on your license if it is determined to be a handgun/other. I think it would be legal, but my opinion does not count anywhere except in my office and my garage. I thought the Mare's Legs should be legal and look where that got me.

[LI Ammo]

I for one would own one if it was legal, only in a 20 gauge, I don't think I'm man enough to try it in a 12g.

[mattyj513]

This is definitely in the category of owning it just for it being bad ass. I'll fire it, no issues on that front, but I am generally regarded as being an extraordinarily manly man.

LI Ammo, I would (will) be purchasing a regular pistol grip 12 gauge and performing the modifications myself. As far as the mares leg, I have not researched the specifics in depth (main difference from a legal perspective would be a rifled barrel) but unless NCPL can specifically reference penal law that requires it to be registered as a pistol (which my preliminary research has already ruled out), they will be SOL on me putting it on my pistol license.

[IlDuce]

not for that fuckin price.. if it was cheaper, id think about it..

[mattyj513]

Just to clarify here, I plan on purchasing a regular old mossy 500 pistol grip and doing the mods myself. Much smaller price tag.

[cas]

I may be wrong but, to MAKE one yourself, you're still building an NFA item and would have to comply with all the ATF hoops and taxes. Manufacturing one is not the same as transferring one from a licensed manufacturer/dealer.

[Genghis Khan]

Currently on a Suffolk County pistol permit.

[LI Ammo]

Currently on a Suffolk County pistol permit.

Love it! Wimps like me would make it in 28 gauge.

[mattyj513]

I may be wrong but, to MAKE one yourself, you're still building an NFA item and would have to comply with all the ATF hoops and taxes. Manufacturing one is not the same as transferring one from a licensed manufacturer/dealer.

Incorrect. As weird as it may be, this is actually a weird example of an item that does not fall into nfa territory. Not considered a short barreled shotgun because a shotgun is defined as being fired from the shoulder, not defined as a pistol because it is over 26 inches, etc. When modifying, it does have to be done in a certain order to keep it legal throughout the build, pistol grip has to be swapped to a birds head style before cutting the barrel so it constantly remains over 26 inches. But no hoops or stamp required.

Genghis, the reason that would be classified as a pistol (it would appear, atleast) is that it is less than 26 inches in overall length.

[wdeister08]

Raptor grip + receiver never attached to a shoulder stock + 14" barrel from Mossberg

[cas]

Currently on a Suffolk County pistol permit.

Bought or built?